Posted on 09/08/2010 1:00:01 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
UPDATE: Apparently Joe Romm can’t handle this information. Ecotretas records the action here.
Readers may have seen this BBC story:
BBC – Earth News – Climate change threatens slow swimming narwhals
“That places them at high risk from climate change, as narwhals will not be able to cope with shifting, highly mobile ice floes caused by warmer seas.”
As explained below, a narwhal fossil find suggests that the Arctic may have been more open and warmer in the past.
Guest post by Ecotretas (visit his blog here)
In early August, an ice island calved from Greenland’s Petermann Glacier. Later in the month, an ice chunk broke off Ellesmere Island, away from the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf. An interesting phrase from the CBC article caught my attention:
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| At 40 metres thick, the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf is estimated to be 3,000 to 5,000 years old, jutting off the island like an extension of the land. |
The key detail was the age of the ice shelf. Being 3000 to 5000 years old correlates very well with the existence of the Holocene climatic optimum. This data is confirmed from several sources, including references several decades old:
Steve McIntyre brought up some interesting questions several years ago, and has raised the issue several other times. Other indirect evidence of less ice in the Holocene, and one of my favorites, is given by the discovery of a narwhal tusk, on the northwest coast of Ellesmere Island, that was radiocarbon dated at 6,830 ± 50 B.P. From the abstract of “An early Holocene narwhal tusk from the Canadian high Arctic” we can read:
The same issues can naturally be also found for the Nares Strait, where the Petermann glacier drains. A paper by John England, referenced in the CBC article above, doesn’t leave any doubts about what was going on several millenia ago:
Other papers, like “Late Pleistocene-Holocene Marine Geology of Nares Strait Region“, from Mudie et al., don’t leave much doubts about what was the past climate of the region:
While it is sad that ice sheets are melting, it’s nothing new for Nature. In historical terms, ice sheets have gone, and gotten back. One might just wonder what was causing climate change then? Or understand that this melting may even be good for science, as collecting samples from where ice is gown, will certainly reveal our past history in more detail…
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More on Artic warming in the past.
The Narwhal Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
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Ecotretas says:
September 8, 2010 at 4:27 am
It keeps getting better! Looks like Joe Romm won’t let his readers have some historical knowledge of what was going on, in the Arctic, in the last millenniums.
Please find a live report of Climate Progress’s censorship here: http://ecotretas.blogspot.com/2010/09/climate-progress-censorship.html
Ecotretas
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Want to get this in here from the Blog -- Joe Duck:
ClimateProgress.org bans most reasoned dissent?
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As a long time blogger I’m going to start calling out other blogs for an outrageous practice that is becoming very common and very frustrating to any clear thinker: banning comments simply because they don’t line up with a particular blog’s point of view and biases. Blog authors have a lot of control and it’s increasingly abused in the name of groupthink. At the WordPress conference I was alarmed to hear a prominent blogger say something along the lines of “it’s my house and I can kick out whoever I want to”. Blogs already suffer from inhibiting good two way communication and it pains me to see bloggers make the problem worse by wasting their time censoring comments. I comment far less now than I used to at blogs like RealClimate.org because I know that even a calm and reasoned comment may be deleted by the heavy handed and irrational moderation practiced there. This form of censorship distorts the conversation, often misleading the gullible into thinking there is concensus where there is none.
There are many obvious gray areas in terms of censorship but I’m seeing an increasing number of blogs cross the lines of reasoned discourse in the interest of lining up support for their positions. Interestingly this is becoming something of standard operating procedure in much of the climate alarmism blog community, where ClimateProgress stands out conspicuously as an alarmist voice for the poorly informed who want to stay that way.
My hypothesis is that this irrationality and censorship stems from several new factors: Ego-driven science of the last few decades, unreasonable attacks on scientists that were common in the Bush “anti science” administration, overspecialization in the sciences that creates narrow bands of expertise that have little relevance to larger context issues like Climate Change, grade inflation (there are a remarkable number of scientists who now write and discuss things as irrationally as a TV pundit – acting more as advocates than purveyors of information.
A spectacular example of this is Joe Romm’s ClimateProgress.org , a targeted and uninformed collection of misleading posts about Climate Science. Most are simply attack dog pieces on reasoned voices who do no share Romm’s irrationally alarmist views about Climate change. Although I’m a fan of Tom Friedman his implied endorsement of this blog forces me to reconsider Friedman’s coherency.
Now, we are living in the blogosphere so ranting irrationally has a lot of entertainment value, but Romm’s has the audacity to simply ban or moderate those who don’t agree with him.
I feel a combination of anger and pity for people who choose to limit the conversation to strengthen their own (usually weak) positions, but when this is done in the name of “science” it *REALLY* pisses me off, and I’ll be bringing this up regularly as the intersection of advocacy and science continues to metasticize in the blogOsphere.
OK, I admit the comment below, posted over at ClimateProgress.org is kind of snarky but he should at the very least post it in the interest of dialog since he’s attacking *both* Pielke’s, who any reasonable person would agree are well qualified climate scientists who suffer enormous abuse at the hands of their intellectual inferiors for simply pointing out the obvious about climate alarmism.
Ad Hominem BS as usual – do you EVER address any reasoned scientific critiques here? Both Pielke’s represent voices of reason in the rising sea of alarmism that represents the greatest exaggeration of risk in the history of humans on earth.
The main point for those of us who accept global warming and accept the anthropogenic nature of that warming but don’t preach catastrophe is that 1) related natural factors are very significant and poorly understood and affecting things as is obvious from the last few years of cooling 2) the models suck to the extent they don’t predict things well and are generally presented as unfalsifiable 3) the changes are gradual and small, presenting us with engineering issues, not existential ones.
These three points are *totally obvious to informed people* yet they don’t line up the groupthinkers.
PS – shame on you for deleting this comment!
Or this one at RealClimate. I used to participate there often but noticed that if I addressed people who attacked me in the same snarky vein I’d sometimes be moderated. This form of targeted censorship has no place in the blogs where free spirited discussion should rule the day.
Commenter Chris wrote: <i>In the interest of civility, I think we should await Pielke’s response before heaping abuse on him</i>
My reply: (I predict this will be deleted by the RealClimate censors): Sure, but you obviously don’t belong here at RealClimate, where no reasoned objection goes unchallenged by blustering nonsense. Only here does “less change” become “more change”. The whole problem for clear thinkers is that the models are predicting things that are not happening. Predicted warming is not materializing as expected, and the *very recent* data suggests even more strongly that the idea we are poised on the brink of (Hansen’s term here) “Climate Catastrophe” is simply nonsense. I don’t even think you guys are *sincere* anymore. Egos and alarmism now trump the data on virtually every public front, though ironically the non-politically polluted studies remain of good quality.
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The first IPCC report came out in 1990. Kyoto was adopted only seven years later. This nonsense has been going on for 20 years. Where are the islands and coastal areas we were told would be under water? Where is the farmland lost to desert? Why isn't it not very much warmer now than 20 years ago? This will end like the Population Bomb ended, when the predictions prove false. Hence the increasing hysteria to get their political agenda passed before the jig is up.
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