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Florida city commissioner charged with second degree murder in fatal shooting of shoplifter
nbc ^ | Oct. 20, 2018 / 6:46 AM ‎PDT | by Erik Ortiz /

Posted on 10/20/2018 11:22:53 AM PDT by BenLurkin

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To: BenLurkin

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-city-commissioner-charged-second-degree-murder-fatal-shooting-shoplifter-n922216

Video of the incident.

Looks like Lopez turned and the commissioner fired.


41 posted on 10/20/2018 12:56:21 PM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: BenLurkin

“They bring an axe, we bring a gun.” ~ Barrack Hussein 0bama


42 posted on 10/20/2018 1:52:16 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin ( "Why can't you be more like Lloyd Braun?")
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To: M Kehoe

My yep to your yep > agree


43 posted on 10/20/2018 9:30:14 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: cpdiii

“In Texas you can use deadly force to stop a thief from fleeing with your stolen property. Personally I would not unless he was a mortal threat”

Go read the dam statute!


44 posted on 10/20/2018 9:34:56 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: TexasGator
I am quite familiar with the statute in Texas. Below you can also read it. "A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41 ;  and (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;  or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;  and (3) he reasonably believes that: (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury." As mentioned I personally would never use deadly force unless I was in fear for my life. The statute is very clear and precise. I welcome your comments. Stealing a man's possessions in Texas is a dangerous line of work. The reason about the difference in the law relative to day and night is it assumed that in the day time you can determine if the thief is armed and dangerous. At night it is assumed he is armed and dangerous as you can not see if he has a weapon. The fact this robbery was in the daytime and the man had an axe in his hand made him armed and dangerous by Texas law. Under Texas law this was a legal shoot. I myself would not have taken the shot. It was a very bad decision by this man.
45 posted on 10/20/2018 10:27:25 PM PDT by cpdiii (Cane Cutter, Deckhand,Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist: THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: cpdiii

“I am quite familiar with the statute in Texas. “
Maybe now but obviously not when you made your previous post.


46 posted on 10/21/2018 7:57:48 AM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: TexasGator

Well then, allow me to be more specific.

According to Colorado Revised Statues 18-1-704 subsection 2(b) which reads:

2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or
attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or...

18-4-202. First degree burglary.
(1) A person commits first degree burglary if the person knowingly enters unlawfully, or remains unlawfully after a lawful or unlawful entry, in a building or occupied structure with intent to commit therein a crime, other than trespass as defined in this article, against another person or property, and if in effecting entry or while in the building or occupied structure or in immediate flight therefrom, the person or another participant in the crime assaults or menaces any person, or the person or another participant is armed with explosives or a deadly weapon.

I would remind the community that in the case in Texas, the robber was armed with a hatchet which is a deadly weapon.

So I reassert my original premise. In Colorado, you can use deadly force to stop a robbery.


47 posted on 10/22/2018 6:55:37 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

“So I reassert my original premise. In Colorado, you can use deadly force to stop a robbery.”

Following keyboard lawyer’s advice can get one into loads of trouble.


48 posted on 10/22/2018 7:43:46 AM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: TexasGator

It is always true that in legal matters, one should consult an attorney. By the way, the assertion was provided to me by an Colorado attorney.


49 posted on 10/22/2018 8:37:39 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol
Looks like you've been dealing with a case of...

lol!

50 posted on 10/22/2018 11:48:21 AM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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To: taxcontrol

“By the way, the assertion was provided to me by an Colorado attorney.”

There are good lawyers and bad ones like you cite.


51 posted on 10/22/2018 1:22:12 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: BenLurkin

I would not have shot the man

Not for stealing a hatchet

But that’s just me


52 posted on 10/22/2018 1:28:47 PM PDT by wardaddy (I donÂ’t care that youÂ’re not a racist......when the shooting starts it wonÂ’t matter what you were)
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To: taxcontrol

What you quoted isn’t just an “assertion” - it is the law!

Here in Washington state the law is similar. The key however that the prosecutor will grab onto is “reasonable force”.

There was a case where a neighbor saw a stranger hauling stuff out of his neighbor’s house that was on vacation. He yelled at the guy to stop. He didn’t. So the neighbor goes to get his hunting bow and tells the guy to stop again. He doesn’t as he is loading a big-screen TV into his truck.

The neighbor shoots him in the butt with a broadhead arrow. The cops said it was a good shoot and didn’t bring any charges. The prosecutor said it would have been different if the guy had died. I think that the prosecutor is wrong, as others have.

However, it just takes one eager prosecutor to mess things up for you.

However, wrestling with a guy that has a hatchet in his hands is a whole ‘nother thing.


53 posted on 10/22/2018 1:32:05 PM PDT by 21twelve (!)
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To: TexasGator

It would seem that your position is that a Colorado practicing attorney, quoting the exact Colorado statute is somehow .... bad?

Please explain how you come to this opinion and how your background and education qualifies you to assess how good a lawyer may or may not be, in the state of Colorado.

Or if you know of some other Colorado statute that would supplant or supersede 18-1-704, by all means, please share.


54 posted on 10/22/2018 1:42:28 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

Dude, your statement about using deadly force to stop a robbery is NOT on the statute. And No Credible lawyer would assert what you claim.


55 posted on 10/22/2018 5:07:24 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: taxcontrol

Dude, your statement about using deadly force to stop a robbery is NOT on the statute. And No Credible lawyer would assert what you claim.


56 posted on 10/22/2018 5:07:28 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: TexasGator

Actually it is in there, but you are entitled to your opinion.


57 posted on 10/22/2018 6:22:01 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

“Actually it is in there, but you are entitled to your opinion.”

Actually it is not in there, dude.


58 posted on 10/22/2018 6:23:46 PM PDT by TexasGator (Z1)
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To: TexasGator
According to Colorado Revised Statues 18-1-704 subsection 2(b) which reads:

2. Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:

(b.) The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or...

59 posted on 10/23/2018 6:05:06 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: TexasGator
He was halfway out the exit.

Was the shooter an employee/owner or just a customer?

60 posted on 10/23/2018 6:19:10 AM PDT by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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