Posted on 05/25/2021 8:37:21 AM PDT by RandFan
HI.
having made sure Israel is strong and can handle more attacks and invasions, they themselves want to defend themselves without need of outside troops. The problem is that we do NOT do this. Rather, we make sure Israel has defense equipment, yes (which I strongly support as they really do need it), but then we “legitimize” or enable or finance or provide weapons to Israel’s enemies. Funding and “legitimizing” such evil gangs like PLO-Abbas, Hamas, and Hezballah only serves to keep their hopes alive of killing the Jews and Christians... and they keep attacking over and over again. The Nazis embedded in WashDC make this policy because (1) it keeps the Israelis under siege, and (2) it might someday achieve the complete slaughter of the Jews and Christians in that part of the world.
Move the Arab gangsters out of Israel and off her borders, disarming them of course, and returning them to Arabia, Egypt, and Iraq, etc will pretty much solve the problem all around. The money and weapons we (including the EuroNazis) give the terrorist murder gangsters can be used to assist in the most “humanitarian” Arab repatriation possible, no new money needs to be spent on the basturds! (And, the available polls, albeit I do not have confidence in any polls any more, show that over 2/3 of the “captive” Muslim population stuck under the PLO Hamas and Hexballah want this opportunity, too.
But, solving problems is not what the Snake Department/Deep State is in business for, is it?
As for Iron Dome funding, I am going to put my neck out for a minute, so take your shots or voice your thoughtful opinion.
I had this thought a week or so ago during the height of Hamas sending hundreds of missiles indiscriminately towards Israeli citizens. Note: this only pertains to Iron Dome, and hence Iron Dome funding in this context. My thought involved a little what-if game. What if Israel didn't have the Iron Dome system? The obvious conclusion would be many of those missiles would hit the ground. (Can't really say target.) There would be massively more bloodshed and property damage to Israelis - both Jews and Arabs. Just as Israel did not stand idly by with Iron Dome, you would suspect Israel would actively seek out and destroy targets in Gaza if they didn't have Iron Dome.
If Israel didn't have Iron Dome, would they have been more vigorous in destroying Hamas and the PA? Would they end this conflict once and forever?
While I don't want to see innocent life lost without Iron Dome, there is a side of me that thinks this has become a slow war of attrition, that has already spanned previous decades and it has no end in sight. The losses add up over time. Perhaps without Iron Dome, there is a one-time increase in loss of life in Israel, but it ends the on going conflict for good. That loss of life would be no greater than over the long term. If Israel flattened Gaza, drove the Palestinians into the Sinai, and end this for once and forever, then Israelis could get on with their lives, in peace, and without terror.
In essence, I am wondering if lack of Iron Dome would force Israel to end because their loss of life and destruction of property would be much higher. Would their hands be forced?
A tangential thought is Iron Dome is deep state defense contractor crack. They make money from Israel's Iron Dome addiction. The deep state cares only about one thing - never ending spending. They don't give a damn about Israel, the Palestinians, or peace. They want ongoing war and conflict to make money.
There once was a time in the world, some 70 or so years ago, that wars were won and ended. Add to that, relatively quickly. That doesn't happen anymore. I believe Eisenhower gave us far warning about this, but no one listened.
“So their funding both sides.
Does not make sense !”
I think you’re looking at this from a perspective that is not the US government’s perspective. Even claiming it’s the government’s perspective is probably wrong. That would imply that our present government has some clear goal or objective that various functionaries think would benefit the US government and the interests of the US people. While I believed that was happening during the Trump administration, I don’t believe it is possible when the Democrats are laser focused on simply maintaining power at any cost. You get a sense of “the government’s” priorities when their military recruitment videos are replayed the world over as parodies. When we’ve reached a point when it’s impossible to parody the government’s actions, it’s also impossible to believe they have any kind of sensible policy towards any person, government, group or idea.
In this context, the objective of any gift, sale or transfer is not to help or support one side or idea over another. It’s to gain whatever political benefit that giving the money or support can gain you at home. Does anyone believe that there’s one wit of sympathy or support from the present US officialdom for either side?
The way this works is, competing interests go to the Administration and broker a deal. You give 75 million dollars (a portion of which will find its way back to my pocket by proxy) to XYZ and I’ll give your sister-in-law a partnership in our law firm. Oh, and a half million signing bonus. The manufacturer of rockets offers a break on the cost of another product if he gets a lucrative no bid on Iron Dome missiles. That way whoever negotiates the other contract can claim a couple of brownie points, and, possible a post government job. There are a lot voices at a lot of levels involved in this. All we see are a few headlines that really don’t reflect what’s going on at all.
If you’re looking for sense, or consistency, or a general purpose, it’s probably not there to find.
I am tired of funding Israel. I am tired of the US funding regime change globally, and trying to leverage other countries to our will. Did it in Ecuador (with IMF help) to further persecute Julian Assange. We’re doing it in Belarus.
The lie that to be Anti-Zionist is the same as being Anti-Semitic will never stop because it gets such mileage.
Look how much mileage the “if you don’t support BLM (Black Lives Matter)1, you are a White Supremacist” has gotten traction in the US and beyond.
Tired of it all.
Dey gotta make dat money.
The Dems and the Pubs are really happy to have that ME conflict flare up again.
Ahhhhhh the socialist nationalist populist and the anti Semites lock arms in berating the Jewish nation of Israel.
Ping
No one is berating Israel we just don’t want to needlessly subsidize them or have taxpayers pay for their defense.
Where have I coitized Israel? I could care less they should do what’s required without outside help. They’re more than capable I think...
The socialists OTOH may have differing reasons for not supporting aid (they’re largely hypocrites because they support “some” aid, just not to those they don’t approve of).
At least conservatives like myself (and Rand) are consistent in rejecting all such aid.
The irony of course is that Jewish voters overwhelmingly and unshakeably support Democrats by 2:1 in elections. Republicans who want to pander and use taxpayers cash to lavish on Israel are wasting their time.
“this is where libertarians show their true colors; yellow.”
I’m not a libertarian but I can’t find one single word in the Constitution that allows Congress to give American tax money to foreign countries. I’m all for selling Israel anything they want. But giving it to them, no.
L
Not quite sure the point of your post. Iron Dome was developed in Israel by Rafael Defense Systems and Israel Aerospace Industries, who manufacture the system. Without later aid Israel might not have the current number of batteries or missiles yet, but I doubt that would be a major factor. Certainly US aid was a major asset, but our interest came well after the systems devolopment, and at the price of having the missiles built in the US, ironically putting Israel’s supply of the missiles they developed at risk, as well as restricting sales to other nations. I doubt a smaller supply would have been a major factor given the quality of Hamas rockets. I doubt Israel has the desire to “flatten” Gaza and drive the residents into the Sinai, precipitating a war with Egypt. You’ll note that in the north where the quality of rockets is thought to be superior, Israel has made it clear that a Hamas style attack will be considered an attack by Lebanon, and war will ensue. Doesn’t mean Iran will hold off forever.
Stop giving Israel military assistance. As an Israeli citizen I oppose it. You want to work on weapons development? Great. That’s mutually beneficial. But you want to keep giving us hand-outs? No thanks. Keep it. You’ll need it for all the stupid projects the leftards are trying to fund.
Thanks
I know in Israel it’s actually widely debated whether they accept the aid (WITH STRINGS!) or not.
But your leaders have always accepted it. I’m guessing someone is making money which sadly is always the case.
(I’m no expert on the subject though...)
As I was working, I remembered a quote from Daniel Patrick Moynihan. I think he was the final honest Democrat.* It goes, “Politics is all about who gets how much and when. Nothing else matters.” I think it encapsulates our discussion. The policy, whether, to support Israel or the Palestinians, is nowhere on the politicians’ horizon. That’s why their decisions make no sense. When we look at their decisions, we seek an underlying policy or desire for some particular outcome. But that doesn’t appear because it’s not there to find. The desired outcome for the politicians was whatever they got in exchange for their decision. We, as observers, don’t see that unless, as in Abscam**, it is revealed to us by a surveillance camera.
* My father, a WWII vet and a hard working man, was a Democrat. Then, along came Carter and he became a Republican. He was a proud American and he said, “I didn’t leave the Democratic party. They left me.” My dad and his Democrat friends were wonderful people; a separate species from what we see today. Honest, hard working ..,pro American. Today, they’d all be far, far right Republicans.
** Abscam, where the FBI filmed sitting senators stuffing money down their pants, changed how politics works. Now, it’s all done by third parties who say things like, “Yeah, ten percent goes to the big guy.”
Washington’s farewell address should be referenced here and is duly noted.
Israel is valued strategic partner and allie in the Middle Eastern region against our common enemies goofy Isolationists like Rand and Ron Paul needs to realize we’re not in 1765 anymore hell by their own standards they’d have to consider T. Jefferson a warmongering Neocon.
There’s nothing in the Constitution that states we can’t provide them or go with them merits of common defence Dr. Paul should know better as should Rand too.
Washington’s Farewell address is A. Not the Constitution
B. Has been taken out of its proper context and misinterpreted by the Isolationists in order to fit their moon bat craized isolationism ideals.
There is an interesting debate tonight hosted by INFOWARS> between Robert Barnes and Nick Fuentes which will present both sides of thr argument. I will ping you later it should be interesting
There is nothing wrong with healthy debate even if we disagree.
**Israel is valued strategic partner and allie in the Middle Eastern region **
Really?
Chinese investment in Haifa port could compromise US-Israel intelligence sharing: Report
Middle East Eye, 1 February 2021
A pro-Israel think tank expressed concern over Chinese investment in Israel, including proximity of Chinese company to US Sixth Fleet in Haifa
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-us-china-investment-intelligence-compromise-haifa-port
Israel Rejects US Plan To Inspect Chinese Harbor At Haifa
Breaking Defense, Feb 3, 2021
TEL AVIV: Israel has refused an American request to inspect the new Chinese-built Haifa port that will be operated for the next 25 years by SIPG, a Chinese company. This is being seen in both countries as a test case of Israel’s relationship with China and with the United States.
https://breakingdefense.com/2021/02/israel-rejects-us-plan-to-inspect-chinese-harbor-at-haifa/
Since when do you speak for all Israeli citizens?
It’s not giving hand outs of any kind its funding maintaining a common defence against shared enemies.
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