U.S. Forces Launch Major Fallujah Operation

FOX NEWS ^ | Monday, April 05, 2004

[Gippers Brigade]

clearly, we must liberate the iraqis with a huge mushroom cloud

[The Other Harry]

Since America stands not for tyranny and barbary but for freedom and justice, since patriots stand for American values and since Freepers are fiercely patriotic, I guess I won't meet one in a hurry.

You have not met one in me.

But "American values" are not something we can impose on Iraq. The more we try, the more of our valient soldiers will get killed. They will resist us. Every day, all the time.

[Kaslin]

You don't get it, do you? The reason they did this is, because Clinton pulled the troops out of Somalia after the Mogadishu disaster. They were counting on the same thing to happen.

BTW did you vote for Clinton in 92 and 96, and for Gore in 2000? You sure sound like it. Or by any chance are you French by any chance?

[blackie]

Death to all terrorists ~ Hang 'em High ~ Bump!

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

[Smartass]

TAKE NO PRISONERS!

[The Other Harry]

You don't get it, do you? The reason they did this is, because Clinton pulled the troops out of Somalia...

We should never have gone into Somalia in the frist place. Nor into Vietnam.

Clinton was an awful president, but doing stupid things wasn't only his perview. It was Eisenhower who got us into Vietnam. What good came of that?

It was Nixon who got us out.

[Atlantic Friend]

I concur, Harry, American values - that in fact, are truly universal values since every man must crave for justice and freedom - won't be imposed militarily. They will grow out of peace and prosperity, as they did in Asia and Europe, albeit in a more favorable terrain.

However ugly the things may look after Fallujah, the fact is Iraq is not insurging. Some groups are, whether they are linked to the old regime, to neighboring countries or to terrorism.

These groups act like insurgent groups have always acted : they try to defeat their enemy by bleeding him slowly, until he does something dumb like pulling out or venting his frustration by some massacre that will bind the population to the insurgents.

I can understand the anger, and the wish to wage the same kind of war. I felt the same when I saw the bodies hanged by the bridge, and even though I don't have a relative risking his life there I just wanted to rain down terror and destruction upon the cheering crowd.

Fact is, I still want terror and destruction to rain down, but upon the real perpetrators, those we saw on the pictures, those we didn't see but who planned the attack and the riot.

Maybe there were many other people who did not took any part in the attack but nonetheless hate you and me because we are Evil Westerners or something. But since when loving or fearing me is mandatory, and since when failure to comply is punishable by death ? If some Iraqi people hate my guts and stop it at that, they're clean in my book. If they're not afraid of me, that's still their business. No need to call the Thought Police to shoot them "pour encourager les autres".

[bondjamesbond]

I just want us to do what works in Iraq. Nuking Fallujah is not going to work. A thoroughgoing pacification of Fallujah is what is required, and will demonstrate to that part of the world that we are capable of doing so and willing to do it.

[Atlantic Friend]

"Time to play their game"

And sink to their level, to the level of terrorist bombers and cowards whose only courage is to strike at dead bodies with shovels and hang them as if it was some great military prowess ?

I must say I'd expect something higher of Coalition and US troops. In order to win WW2, US GI did not have to emulate the atrocities of the Nazis, nor did they have to rape and loot whole cities as some Japanese troops did it. When I see this new generation of soldiers, I don't think they're less gifted than their elders. They live by their code of honor, and will win by their code.

[The Other Harry]

A thoroughgoing pacification of Fallujah is what is required, and will demonstrate to that part of the world that we are capable of doing so and willing to do it.

Don't hold your breath.

[Atlantic Friend]

Yes, that's very much true. Pacification is not another name for appeasement, as Allied troops largely proved since WW2. IMHO, it calls for a stern but fair justice, the will to use military force if and every time it is necessary, and some good police work to weed out the insurgents.

[Kaslin]

Clinton was an awful president, but doing stupid things wasn't only his perview. It was Eisenhower who got us into Vietnam. What good came of that?

Actually it was LBJ who got us into the war with Vietnam through his lie about the Tonkin Guf incident that never happend. All what Eisenhower did was get 600 advisors in.

Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers

Tonkin Gulf: August 1964

snip

As negative evidence accumulated, within a few days it came to seem less and less likely that any attack had occurred of August 4; by 1967 it seemed almost certain that there had been no second attack, and by 1971 I was convinced of that beyond a reasonable doubt. (In 1966, credible testimony from captured North Vietnamese officers who had participated in the August 2 attack refuted any attack on August 4. In late 1970, journalist Anthony Austin discovered and gave me evidence that intercepted North Vietnamese cables supposedly confirming an August 4 attack actually referred to the attack on August 2. Finally, in 1981, journalist Robert Scheer convinced Herrick—with new evidence from his ship's log—that his long-held belief in the first torpedo report was unfounded.) However,on August 4, given Herrick's repeated assurances and those of a number of seamen over the next few hours, I concluded that afternoon, along with everyone else I spoke to, that there probably had been an attack of some sort. At the same time, there was clearly a good chance that there had been one. In that light, Herrick's recommendation to pause and investigate seemed prudent, to say the very least: Reverse engines, stop the presses! But that's not how things were moving in Washington that Tuesday afternoon.

Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers

It was Nixon who got us out.

You are correct. Nixon got us out

[WOSG]

your problem is your fear it wont live up to its name. you want action not words. how about:

Operation Pink Tutu
Operation Fluffy Bunny
Operation Drunken Monkey
Operation Royal Crown
Operation Mountain Oyster
Operation Candy Brain
Operation Daffy Duck

I like the last one. our enemies are daffy and in battle, it is good to remember to duck.

[farfromhome]

I agree. Except if we get something like "Operation Noisy Cricket" from MIB.

[wku man]

And thank God there were enough leaders in decision making positions that didn't listen to the whiners, and sent the 8th Air Force on those bombing raids, anyway. Look, we can be conscientious and play fair, or we can win the damn war. We keep saying we, the US, are the world's only superpower. If we are, its about damn time we start acting like it, and kick some freakin' ass! We can win this war in a matter of a couple of years, but it's gonna take a helluva lot more guts than we apparently have in DC. For that matter, I doubt if we have that kind of guts anywhere in our nation anymore.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[farfromhome]

Operation Lousy Codename