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Anthropologist resigns in 'dating disaster'
Worlnetdaily ^ | February 19, 2005 | unattributed

Posted on 02/19/2005 7:36:30 AM PST by Woodworker

Panel says professor of human origins made up data, plagiarized works

A flamboyant anthropology professor, whose work had been cited as evidence Neanderthal man once lived in Northern Europe, has resigned after a German university panel ruled he fabricated data and plagiarized the works of his colleagues. Reiner Protsch von Zieten, a Frankfurt university panel ruled, lied about the age of human skulls, dating them tens of thousands of years old, even though they were much younger, reports Deutsche Welle. "The commission finds that Prof. Protsch has forged and manipulated scientific facts over the past 30 years," the university said of the widely recognized expert in carbon data in a prepared statement.

Protsch's work first came under suspicion last year during a routine investigation of German prehistoric remains by two other anthropologists. "We had decided to subject many of these finds to modern techniques to check their authenticity so we sent them to Oxford [University] for testing," one of the researchers told The Sunday Telegraph. "It was a routine examination and in no way an attempt to discredit Prof. von Zieten." In their report, they called Protsch's 30 years of work a "dating disaster."

Among their findings was an age of only 3,300 years for the female "Bischof-Speyer" skeleton, found with unusually good teeth in Northern Germany, that Protsch dated to 21,300 years. Another dating error was identified for a skull found near Paderborn, Germany, that Protsch dated at 27,400 years old. It was believed to be the oldest human remain found in the region until the Oxford investigations indicated it belonged to an elderly man who died in 1750. The Herne anthropological museum, which owned the Paderborn skull, did its own tests following the unsettling results. "We had the skull cut open and it still smelt," said the museum's director. "We are naturally very disappointed."

Protsch, known for his love of Cuban cigars and Porsches, did not comment on the commission's findings, but in January he told the Frankfurter Neue Presse, "This was a court of inquisition. They don't have a single piece of hard evidence against me." The fallout from Protsch's false dating of northern European bone finds is only beginning.

Chris Stringer, a Stone Age specialist and head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum, said: "What was considered a major piece of evidence showing that the Neanderthals once lived in northern Europe has fallen by the wayside. We are having to rewrite prehistory." "Anthropology now has to revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 B.C.," added Thomas Terberger, an archaeologist at the University of Greifswald. Frankfurt University's president, Rudolf Steinberg, apologized for the university's failure to curb Protsch's misconduct for decades. "A lot of people looked the other way," he said.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Germany; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: academia; anthropology; archaeology; c14; chrisstringer; crevolist; evolution; fraud; germany; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; protschvonzieten; radiocarbondating; rcdating; reinerprotsch; resignation; rudolfsteinberg; science; speyer; thomasterberger; vonzieten
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To: Dataman
I think I value truth more than you do.

That claim, coming from you, would make me laugh if it didn't turn my stomach so much.

Accuracy is important. Dimensio came nowhere near proving his smear against creationists.

You didn't ask him to "prove" his statement, you asked him to provide a "few" examples. He did so. Then suddenly you moved the goalposts all over the place -- now it's "proof" you want...

Tell me, just how many examples can you give from the past 30 days of yourself challenging a "smear" from a creationist? Just how much do you actually value "truth"?

Claiming he was right would be a lie.

No, admitting that he MET YOUR SPECIFIC CHALLENGE would be honorable. This is why you have not done it.

Furthermore, you know he's right -- you've seen that behavior on these threads just like the rest of us. Your current lawyering to avoid admitting that fact is just ludicrous, and is the real "lie".

I thought you didn't like lies.

Indeed I do not.

Now you want me to lie?

No -- I want you to be honorable. I wait in vain.

It continues to be as it has been since 1859. The less evidence one has, the more one has to fabricate it, mischaracterize his opponents, and the louder one has to yell.

So you *are* familiar with the behavior of the anti-evolutionists. Nice of you to acknowledge it.

561 posted on 02/22/2005 1:31:05 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Thatcherite

Oh, he's still up there. Sad, too...I used to think he was a pretty decent FReeper, until I read his nonsensical rantings and outright Bravo Sierra here.


562 posted on 02/22/2005 1:32:07 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Dataman
He met it?

You asked for "one". I provided more than "one". I met your challenge, and then some.

You just want to redefine the terms after the fact because you are utterly incapable of admitting a single mistake. You want to weasel around with terminology, and for some reason I feel a desire to dredge up an old posting where you "proved" that the theory of evolution included abiognesis by citing three statements from sources that did not, in any way, place abiogenesis as the part of the theory of evolution.

Thing is, I'm not sure if I should bother. You still will ignore your brazen dishonesty and hypocracy, and there's no need to demo your outlandish attitude to others because anyone who has watched your recent antics and hasn't come to the conclusion that you're a shameless liar is blind.
563 posted on 02/22/2005 1:32:16 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Thatcherite
Too bad guys, your "sure" missed. Dataman put up a great effort, worthy of the finest logic-chopper, but he didn't find rationalisations to dismiss all of them.

You apparently missed the end, where after having to admit two solid examples, he then turned around and dismissed them all with a rhetorical sleight-of-hand.

564 posted on 02/22/2005 1:32:19 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Michael_Michaelangelo

The only good cat is a dead cat.


565 posted on 02/22/2005 1:33:19 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: Elsie
It's a SIGN!!!

Probably a sign that I should pay the electric bill.

566 posted on 02/22/2005 1:33:42 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Dimensio

Actually their habitat was pools in limestone rock....


Uh..

I thought most ALL fossils are found in limestone.


567 posted on 02/22/2005 1:34:28 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: RaceBannon

I have been reading the Bible for decades. I understand the original languages it was written in. I have six years of seminary.

I know that evolution is a fact and the Theory of Evolution has massive amounts of evidence explaining and substantiating that fact.


568 posted on 02/22/2005 1:35:48 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: Ichneumon
And people whose belief system requires this sort of dishonesty and fraud think it'd be just peachy if the Republican party took on their cause.

Sure...

569 posted on 02/22/2005 1:36:23 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Elsie

Looks like a creationist!


570 posted on 02/22/2005 1:36:30 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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To: Elsie
I thought most ALL fossils are found in limestone.

But most all fossils are not dated using C14 dating...

571 posted on 02/22/2005 1:36:44 PM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Ichneumon
You apparently missed the end, where after having to admit two solid examples, he then turned around and dismissed them all with a rhetorical sleight-of-hand.

True (that I missed the end), I was losing the will to live reading his post, so I gave up about 2/3 of the way through.

572 posted on 02/22/2005 1:37:59 PM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Ichneumon; Thatcherite
I'm starting to wonder if repeated, unapologetic fraud shouldn't be a banning offense here.

Truly, no person who continually engages in it can have good intentions, or arrive at good results.

573 posted on 02/22/2005 1:41:43 PM PST by Long Cut (The Constitution...the NATOPS of America!)
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To: Thatcherite
d. Jesus was not omniscient (if you believe that Jesus was omniscient it would be interesting to know at what age he acquired this remarkable ability, or did he have it from the moment of conception?)



NIV 1 Peter 1:17-21
 17.  Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.
 18.  For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers,
 19.  but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
 20.  He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
 21.  Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
 
 

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:7
  No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
 

NIV 2 Timothy 1:8-10
 8.  So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
 9.  who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
 10.  but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
 

NIV Titus 1:1-4
 1.  Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--
 2.  a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
 3.  and at his appointed season he brought his word to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
 4.  To Titus, my true son in our common faith:   Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
 
 

574 posted on 02/22/2005 1:43:26 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
I don't see any clear statement about omniscience there.

If Jesus the man was omniscient, then how did his omniscience map onto his neural pathways, which would necessarily seem somewhat small for the task?

575 posted on 02/22/2005 1:46:56 PM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite; Elsie

Actually, strike that question in the 2nd para. It is not relevant. I don't think that you have established that Jesus the man was omniscient even if the Bible is inerrant. You'll need a much clearer statement than you've provided so far.


576 posted on 02/22/2005 1:48:54 PM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: drt1
"Hmmmm... Sounds like an excellent candidate for the Colorado University Ethnic Studies Department Chairmanship."

- No, University officials say they already have a well qualified person holding that job, but apparently there is a position opening up to head the Department of Anthropology.
577 posted on 02/22/2005 1:50:18 PM PST by finnigan2
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To: mike182d
The "beginning" being referred to is the beginning of the institution of marriage, when man and women were created, not the beginning of life itself.
OH???
 
Matthew 19
 3.  Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
 4.  "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made them male and female,'
 5.  and said, `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?
 6.  So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
 7.  "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
 8.  Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
 
 
 


 
Genesis 2
 7.  the LORD God formed the man  from the dust of the ground (Not from pre-humans) and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
 8.  Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.
 9.  And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
 10.  A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.
 11.  The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold.
 12.  (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.)
 13.  The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.
 14.  The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
 15.  The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
 16.  And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
 17.  but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
 18.  The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
 19.  Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
 20.  So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.   But for Adam  no suitable helper was found.
 21.  So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
 22.  Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
 23.  The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called `woman, ' for she was taken out of man."
 24.  For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
 25.  The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.
 

578 posted on 02/22/2005 1:51:32 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Ichneumon
Apes in general are more inspiring relatives than many so-called humans. So I wouldn't get too smug if I were you.

82.3% of all generalizations are false.

579 posted on 02/22/2005 1:54:41 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
What exactly does that prove?

If you read the Creation accounts, Man was not the first thing created. In fact, Man was created on the last of "seven" days. How, then, can "the beginning" refer to creation when man did not yet exist?
580 posted on 02/22/2005 1:56:26 PM PST by mike182d
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