Scientists: 1918 Killer Spanish Flu Was a Bird Flu

Fox News ^ | October 05, 2005 | Daniel J. DeNoon

[stm]

Scientists who re-created the 1918 Spanish flu say the killer virus was initially a bird flu that learned to infect people. Alarmingly, they find that today's H5N1 bird flu is starting to learn the same tricks.

The work involves researchers from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP), the CDC, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Jeffery K. Taubenberger, MD, PhD, chief of molecular pathology at the AFIP, is one of the study leaders.

[BluH2o]

Did people even brush their teeth daily yet in 1918? Did they wash their hands at all?

Yes they did ... however, people living in rural areas (and America was much more rural then) not as frequently because they didn't have running water. You heated your water on the stove, or dipped it from a water holder on the side of the iron stoves of the day. My grandmother, the wife of a minister, died in the flu epidemic of 1918. She came into contact with it while tending sick parishioners ... my grandfather (the minister) survived, living to the ripe old age of 96.

[A.Hun]

Thank you for the post, but don't waste your breath.

These people don't want to know, and don't care.

Although, like me, you probably sleep better at night knowing you tried to warn them.

[brytlea]

It's not like I don't make my share of typos, but I thought that one was particularly egregious (or freudian!)
susie

[XEHRpa]

> Yo! General Custer, I think I see an Indian over there.

But this flu thingie is different... we have a plan!

Then again, Custer had a plan...

[steveo]

selfbump

[N2Gems]

You should also consider the fact that like the Spanish flu, we (none of us) has even the smallest bit of natural immunity. We live in a much smaller world today than the people of 1918. If this thing learns to jump from human to human, you couldn't shut down international travel fast enough to stop it.

And in the case of a disease that transmits from human to human, squalid conditions are irrelavent. The only condition that matters is how close one group of people is to the next and there is no doubt at all that we live closer to our neighbors today than we did in 1918.

[SunkenCiv]

Two kids were walking along during an epidemic. The first one says, "look, a dead bird." The other kid looks up in the sky and says, "where?"

This is the earliest FR topic about this that turned up in a search for "flu". Beat the next one by just one number. :')

[SunkenCiv]

In Gina Kolata's book "Flu", there's a tidbit about one of the earlier, serious flu epidemics (my dad's uncle died in the flu epidemic in 1873, as did dad's great-grandparents, and a number of others), I think in the 1890s -- that those who contracted that version of influenza were completely immune to the Spanish Lady.

[ValerieUSA]

*LOL* I love a good funny morbid joke.

[Seadog Bytes]

LOL.

OOOOO...Tinfoil hat time... Just saw this article, below...

Do you think the pilot died ...BEFORE... or after the crash...???
...Maybe we'll NEVER know!!!

***Plane carrying viruses crashes in Canada***
Associated Press -- Posted on Thu, Oct. 06, 2005

WINNIPEG, Manitoba - A cargo plane carrying small amounts of flu virus crashed on railway tracks near Winnipeg's city center Thursday, killing the pilot but missing buildings and vehicles, authorities said.

The research samples of frozen influenza and herpes viruses were destroyed in the crash and ensuing fire along with other freight, Federal Express spokeswoman Karen Cooper said.

She said the Cessna 208 was owned by Morningstar Air Express of Edmonton and was under contract to FedEx.

Morningstar spokesman Don Boettcher didn't immediately identify the woman piloting the aircraft. "She'd been with us for about five years," he said, without providing further details.

The plane took off from the Winnipeg airport en route to Thunder Bay, Ontario, at about 5:45 a.m. and traveled about four miles southeast of the airport before it requested a return, Transportation Safety Board investigator David Ross said.

"The aircraft then descended below radar coverage and contact was lost with the aircraft," Ross said.

"It has crashed on railway tracks and does not appear to have collided with any other objects, houses or cars," police Sgt. Shelly Glover said.

Winnipeg police spokeswoman Carolyn Kwiatek said there was no damage to the surrounding area from the fire. The crash did tie up traffic on nearby streets during the morning rush, but no accidents or injuries resulted.

In its cargo were six vials of virus samples being sent to Thunder Bay for research, Cooper said.

Although the samples were labeled dangerous goods, they weren't considered hazardous at the crash site since all the cargo was destroyed in the blaze, Cooper said.

Police Sgt. Kelly Dennison said weather may have been a factor. Reports suggested light snow and mist in the area, temperatures near the freezing mark, moderate winds and about four miles of visibility.

Ross said the plane probably wasn't carrying a flight data recorder.

[SunkenCiv]

Or maybe, the burned remains were already dead, and the pilot faked his own death for some nefarious reason.

Police should search for a sneezing man with really bad cold sores.

[SunkenCiv]

You do? Cool.

Three dead guys on gurneys roll into a bar. The fourth one misses it. The fifth one wound up with a wheel sideways, trapped in that crack exposed by the opened elevator doors.

Hey, I never said *all* of these were funny. ;')

[SunkenCiv]

---

Flu: The Story Of The Great Influenza Pandemic by Gina Kolata

---

Includes an account (pp 281-283) of the dying off of thousands of dolphins off the east coast of the US back in 1988. Naturally this was attributed indirectly to pollution by way of red tide. This is the version I've heard a number of times. As this problem was studied one researcher looked at the available evidence and suggested that it was morbillivirus which causes measles in humans and distemper in dogs. Other creatures experiencing similar unexplained dieoffs included seals in a lake in Siberia, harbor seals in northern Europe, striped dolphins in the Mediterranean, and by 1993 the agent, whatever it was, had reached dolphins in the Gulf of Mexico.

Using PCR, one of the methods used in forensic labs and in the human genome project, the morbillivirus RNA was isolated from tissue samples. This was conclusive in 1993. I'm sure the response from the ecoterrorists would be that the dolphins were only vulnerable because of the pollution, or because of the red tide which had accelerated due to pollution. Not realizing, or caring, that:

• the outbreak was also found in an inland Siberian lake
• that it had crossed between species
• that epidemics have been occurring since long before humans walked the Earth, and will be around long after we're gone

---

On p 214 is this interesting quote from Ann Reid, the technician who worked on 1918 lung tissue samples for a full year until she found surviving viral DNA. The possibility exists that this work will contribute to a better understanding of influenza and prevent future flu pandemics, or at least the high mortality rates. "It's a very hierarchical field. I have had experiences before this where someone will be talking to me and will say, 'where did you postdoc?' I tell them that I did not postdoc and they would turn around and walk away."

---

From p 216 -- "...to Taubenberger's amazement, upon receiving his paper, Nature sent it right back, rejecting it without even mailing it to experts for review... Science magazine, apparently, was just as aloof... Why? Perhaps the scientists looking at the paper questioned the group from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology... Only after some senior scientists intervened on Taubenberger's behalf was his paper sent out for review. Then, he said, the reviewers were enthusiastic about the paper and it was accepted for publication."

---

[SunkenCiv]

[Oct 13 2000]

Spanish Flu
by Canadian Press

"The first well-described pandemic of influenza-like disease occurred in 1580. In 1997, Johan Hultin, a retired pathologist, visited Brevig, Alaska, where 72 of 80 residents had died of the flu and been buried in a mass grave in the permafrost. One of the women had been fat, which helped preserve her organs. Hultin sent tissue samples to Taubenberger, who came up with the same results as he had earlier. A report in the October 14 issue of the journal New Scientist discusses some of the significant advances made in the last year in tracking down the origins of the Spanish flu virus."

[SunkenCiv]

This came from AOL, no URL. Thanks to ValerieUSA for sending a similar story, although I'm not positive you did, this file is from 2001.

Study: Pig, Human Viruses Triggered 1918 Flu Pandemic
by Will Dunham

In a study appearing in the journal Science on Thursday, scientists at the Australian National University in Canberra said a key gene in the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic was a hybrid created by the joining together of genetic sequences of pig and human influenza viruses.

[SunkenCiv]

The 18 October 03 issue of New Scientist had an article (pp 34-37) by John Oxford, who is trying to study this rare disorder, which may have somehow been related to the "Spanish Lady" flu epidemic that killed millions:

Encephalitis Lethargica Information Page
National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke

Encephalitis lethargica is a disease characterized by high fever, headache, double vision, delayed physical and mental response, and lethargy. In acute cases, patients may enter coma. Patients may also experience abnormal eye movements, upper body weakness, muscular pains, tremors, neck rigidity, and behavioral changes including psychosis. The cause of encephalitis lethargica is unknown. Between 1917 to 1928, an epidemic of encephalitis lethargica spread throughout the world, but no recurrence of the epidemic has since been reported. Postencephalitic Parkinson’s disease may develop after a bout of encephalitis-sometimes as long as a year after the illness.

[SunkenCiv]

corrected URL:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18024175.000.html

[ValerieUSA]

It was a woman pilot, so chances are he didn't fake his own death.

[ValerieUSA]

It's possible it was from me. I remember discussing the flu with you way back when....

[SunkenCiv]

Search for Secrets Of Killer Flu
by Michele Kambas
8 October, 2001

The 1918 Spanish flu was one of the most contagious viruses ever known. It killed as many as 40 million people in the winter of 1918 and 1919, more than died in the First World War. A team led by John Oxford, the UK Government's flu adviser, has identified 10 victims of the virus that were buried in lead coffins across London. They do not expect to find the virus intact, he said, but it should have left its "footprint" in the patients' lungs.