MANN TALK: An Answer to a Homophobic Pastor’s Letter

Hunting Newspaper ^ | Perry Mann

[Keli Kilohana]

MANN TALK: An Answer to a Homophobic Pastor’s Letter

By Perry Mann

Hinton, WV (HNN) – The following is a letter verbatim that appeared in the Sept. 4, 2006 edition of the Charleston Gazette:

“Editor: California’s assembly recently passed four bills designed to prohibit or punish anyone who promotes traditional views on marriage and family in the state school system.

“Homosexual activists are undermining First Amendment guarantees of free speech by seeking to forbid any view that disagrees with or identifies the danger of homosexual lifestyle.

“Moreover, these activists would require California textbooks, which will be produced for many states beyond the huge California market, to make positive references to homosexual perversion.

“Is free speech hate speech? Do not Christians, who believe such behavior to be aberrant and condemned by God, have the right to voice their opinion? After all, the term homosexual defines what a person does---not what a person is.

“Could it be that homosexuals are wracked with guilt because the conscience created by God and given to each person has condemned such behavior? But instead of choosing to change their view, they choose to silence any voice or opinion that would lend support to the message their own conscience has already given. Pastor Terry Hagedorn, Calvary Baptist Church Reedsville.”

Since I have a son who is gay, I will base my answer to the pastor’s letter on experience, on common sense, on education and on conscience. I will deal with each paragraph as it appears in his letter.

I suspect that what the assembly did was not “to prohibit or punish anyone who promotes traditional views on marriage and family in the state school system” but to prohibit or punish anyone who promotes homophobic views in the school system; that is, to forbid words that incite bigots to beat the hell out of a fag for fun.

Free speech does not allow a person to yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theater. And free speech does not allow one to speak in a manner that would lead another to discriminate against a class or to feel justified in doing violence to a member of it. When the pastor writes and preaches that God condemns homosexuals, then bigots and homophobes feel that God is on their side and that He approves when they kill or maim a gay or treat a gay scornfully or in any manner other than as one would treat a heterosexual. The chief danger of the homosexual lifestyle is bigots and those who inspire bigots, namely, homophobic pastors.

Homosexuality is not a perversion. The perversion is the warped mind of the pastor. One doesn’t choose homosexuality just as one does not choose heterosexuality. Why, pray tell me, would a person who has a choice of his sexual orientation choose to be homosexual in a society that has pastors nationwide preaching that God condemns homosexuality? And that has ruffians everywhere aching to pound senseless any gay that crosses their paths? Further, homosexuality does not define what a person does as a gay. The term for the act, with which the pastor should be familiar, is sodomy, derived from the city of sin that God allegedly destroyed. The word homosexuality is defined as a person having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex. A person’s sexual orientation is a characteristic of the person not what the person does.

The conscience of a homosexual is not wracked by guilt but is wracked by fear of people like the pastor and those who listen to him from childhood and come to believe that gay behavior is aberrant and is an affront to Jehovah. I say Jehovah because the Father of Christ did not teach His child to hate gays. Where in the Gospels does the pastor read that Christ condemned gays? What he reads is St Paul; and Paul wasn’t a god, nor very saintly in some matters. He too was a homophobe.

My son’s conscience is clear with regard to his sexual orientation. He didn’t choose to be gay. He became gay in the same manner that the pastor became straight. He was born gay. His conscience is clear because he expresses his sexuality in accordance with his sexual orientation.

The pastor seems to think that all a gay has to do is change his view and become straight. What a simplistic and ignorant presumption! A gay can no more change his sexual orientation than can a heterosexual change his sexual orientation. Homosexuals are ten percent of the population around the world and have been from time out of mind. They are as much God’s creation or nature’s as are heterosexuals.

Like most preachers, Pastor Hagedorn premises his arguments against homosexuality on the existence of a God. How does he know that there is a God and how does he know that his God condemns gays? He presumes that there is a God who is an entity separate from His creation, that He is male and is heterosexual and thus hates homosexuals. To believe and condemn on such tenuous and improbable presumptions exhibits a cerebrum of low wattage.

Of course, he turns to the Bible. Where in the Bible does he turn? Why, where else but to Leviticus, a book of horrors and death sentences for acts Christians do daily. And where else? To St. Paul. Why doesn’t a Christian pastor read the Sermon on the Mount and quote Christ on homosexuality? The answer is that Christ will not help him in his crusade against gays. But Christ will make him ashamed of himself and wrack his conscience with his message of forgiveness, love and mercy.

Preachers who preach against homosexuality know the congregation is entirely heterosexual and that they will get merits for their hate. To hate the sin and love the sinner does not absolve them from the sin of hating. Christ’s Father knows the phrase is a subterfuge. Every sin is the result of an act and an act is the result of a person’s action. The hate finally roosts on a gay person’s shoulder. And that person is someone who has awakened to know that he is a homosexual in a world mostly of heterosexuals, who mostly hate homosexuals. Even the least sensitive of heterosexuals must in a moment of contemplation realize the nightmarish world he has helped to create for gay people. Pastor Hegedorn should consider the consequences of his hate and his preaching of it lest on Judgment Day he has to answer for it.

* * * *

Perry Mann is a former teacher, a lawyer, a former prosecuting attorney of Summers County and a regular columnist for the Nicholas Chronicle in Summersville and Huntington News Network.

[Keli Kilohana]

Substitute "adultery" or "pedophilia" in Mr. Mann's argument and you will see the folly of his argument against the pastor.

[Pete]

Mr. Mann's rebuttal is easily refuted. But, alas, I am too tired so I will leave to someone else.

[RobRoy]

This guy is just goofy. From one part: "Free speech does not allow a person to yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theater. And free speech does not allow one to speak in a manner that would lead another to discriminate against a class or to feel justified in doing violence to a member of it."

Baloney. The broadness of the implications of his presumption here has no limits. Almost all speech with any substance could be banned based on those rules.

But you are right. There are more than enough examples of logical fallacies in this piece. Acording to him, I could be thrown in the slammer for my tag line...

[GOP Poet]

bump for later

[kenth]

And free speech does not allow one to speak in a manner that would lead another to discriminate against a class

a former prosecuting attorney of Summers County

Thank goodness that's 'former'.

If they are born homosexual, why do they work so hard to recruit kids?

[abishai]

"Further, homosexuality does not define what a person does as a gay. The term for the act, with which the pastor should be familiar, is sodomy, derived from the city of sin that God allegedly destroyed. The word homosexuality is defined as a person having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex. A person’s sexual orientation is a characteristic of the person not what the person does."

Huh?

[Ajnin]

Free speech does not allow a person to yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theater.

I guess this moron would just leave the theater and allow everyone else to burn alive. If even if there is not fire it isn't illegal to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

[AppyPappy]

to forbid words that incite bigots to beat the hell out of a fag for fun.

What about words that incite bigots to beat the Hell our of Christians for fun? Shouldn't we silence anti-Christians? After all, if we can save one life.....

[Unam Sanctam]

And free speech does not allow one to speak in a manner that would lead another to discriminate against a class or to feel justified in doing violence to a member of it.

Funny, I never came across that amorphous exception to the First Amendment in my Con Law class in law school.

[Red Badger]

Even the least sensitive of heterosexuals must in a moment of contemplation realize the nightmarish world he has helped to create for gay people.

Heterosexuals did not create this "nightmarish world". It is solely the creation of the gay establishment and all theirs and theirs alone. They can exit it any time they wish...........

[Petronski]

What a simplistic and ignorant presumption! A gay can no more change his sexual orientation than can a heterosexual change his sexual orientation.

Is this categorically true? I don't think so.

Homosexuals are ten percent of the population around the world and have been from time out of mind.

Unproven and unknowable urban legend.

[Elpasser]

So, if a person is "comfortable" with his sin, and it no longer bothers his conscience, then we must all accept it as morally correct?

Homosexuals have a sexual disorientation; it's as simple as that. Did they ask to be that way? Of course not. But neither did the child molester or alcoholic. It is sad that modern psychologists and liberal theologians seek to normalize abberant sexual behavior rather than help the poor men who are driven to such deviant activities.

[HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath]

When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, it didn't destroy the sin, he destroyed the sinner. Does that mean he loves the sinner, and hates the sin? Not if they don't repent, and turn from their wicked ways, and ask Christ for forgiveness.

Psalm 1
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

[The Blitherer]

I think I'm gonna save this one. It almost completely covers the entire gambit of assumptions and false conclusions of the pro-homosexual movement, and can be methodically refuted on a point by point basis.

Good post.

[Keli Kilohana]

What if someone had written the following:

"Since I have a son who is an adulterer, I will base my answer on experience, on common sense, on education and on conscience.

Adultery is not wrong. The sin is in the warped mind of the pastor who preaches against the sin. One doesn't choose adultery just as one does not choose monogamous heterosexuality. Why, pray tell me, would a person who has a choice of his sexual activity choose to be adulterous in a society that has pastors nationwide preaching that God condemns adultery? And that has scorned wives everywhere aching to pound senseless any unfaithful husband that crosses their paths? Further, adultery does not define what a person does as an adulterer; rather, he or she was born an adulterer! The term for the act is adultery, derived from the sin that God condemned in the Ten Commandments. The word adultery is defined as a person having a sexual affair with a person to whom he or she is not married. A person's sexual activity is a characteristic of the person not what the person does. Some were born adulterers and some were not! Those with this DNA find each other and commit adultery.

The conscience of an adulterer is not wracked by guilt but is wracked by fear of people who believe that adulterous behavior is aberrant and is an affront to Jehovah. I say Jehovah because the Father of Christ did not teach His child to hate sin. Where in the Gospels does a pastor read that Christ condemned adultery?

My son's conscience is clear with regard to his sexual dalliances. He didn't choose to be an adulterer. He was born an adulterer. His conscience is clear because he expresses his sexuality in accordance with his sexuality. He does what is right in his own eyes.

Some think that all an adulterer has to do is change his view and become faithful to his or her spouse. What a simplistic and ignorant presumption! An adulterer can no more change his sexual activity than can a monogamist heterosexual change his sexual orientation. Adulterers are much more than ten percent of the population around the world and have been from time out of mind. They are as much God's creation or nature's as are monogamous husbands and wives.

Most preachers base their arguments against adultery on the existence of a God. How does he know that there is a God and how do they know that their God condemns adulterers? They presume that there is a God who is an entity separate from His creation, that He is male and has condemned adultery. To believe and condemn on such tenuous and improbable presumptions exhibits a cerebrum of low wattage.

Of course, they turn to the Bible. Where in the Bible do they turn? Why, where else but to Exodus 20, a book of horrors and death sentences for acts Christians do daily. And where else? To St. Paul. Why doesn't a Christian pastor read the Sermon on the Mount and quote Christ on adultery? The answer is that Christ will not help him in his crusade against adultery. But Christ will make him ashamed of himself and wrack his conscience with his message of forgiveness, love and mercy.

Preachers who preach against adultery know the congregation is entirely born again monogamous heterosexuals and that they will get merits for their hate. To hate the sin and love the sinner does not absolve them from the sin of hating. Christ's Father knows the phrase is a subterfuge. Every sin is the result of an act and an act is the result of a person's action. The hate finally roosts on an adulterer's shoulder. And that person is someone who has awakened to know that he is a philanderer in a world of monogamous heterosexuals, who mostly hate adultery. Even the least sensitive of monogamous heterosexuals must in a moment of contemplation realize the nightmarish world he has helped to create for adulterous people. A preacher should consider the consequences of his hate and his preaching of it lest on Judgment Day he has to answer for it."


(NOTE: What if one substitutes pedophile, pedophilic and pedophilia for adulterer, adulterous and adultery in this epistle?)

[LiteKeeper]

Mr Mann's arguments are counter-intuitive, and disproved by science and experience.

[Elpasser]

"The chief danger of the homosexual lifestyle is bigots and those who inspire bigots, namely, homophobic pastors."

How truly preposterous. The most dangerous thing to a practicing homosexual is another homosexual who will gladly infect him with the HIV virus. That's led to 1.5 million dead in the U.S.

How many have bigots killed?

[Shamrock-DW]

The "Father" is grabbing for straws. His son is genetically deformed. It is the nature of animals and humans to abhor differences from the norm.

I've seen animals attack same species because they were different and kill them.

Give him another 10,000 years and maybe humans will accept the mating of like sexes without revulsion.

....that is after they have lost their spirituality and humanity...

[Lucky Dog]

And free speech does not allow one to speak in a manner that would lead another to discriminate against a class or to feel justified in doing violence to a member of it.

What about that class of people known as violent criminals? Is one not justified in doing violence to a member of that class, especially in the course of self defense?

What about that class of people known as enemy combatants? Is one not justified in doing violence to a member of that class, especially in the course of military duty or even self defense?

One doesn’t choose homosexuality just as one does not choose heterosexuality.

This is a distinction without a difference. It is an absolute fact that one chooses his or her actions (assuming that the person in not mentally ill). Therefore, it does not matter how one “feels,” because unless that individual does something about the feelings, he or she cannot be classed as a homosexual.

Where in the Gospels does the pastor read that Christ condemned gays?

This argument is so fallacious, it hardly worth addressing. Nonetheless, Christ repeated the commandments from Leviticus to love God with all and individual’s heart, mind, etc. and to love one’s neighbor as one’s self. The mere fact that AIDS and other deadly STDs are commonly transmitted among the homosexual practitioners is enough to cause one adhering to these commandments to forego homosexual behavior. After all, if one is intentionally potentially exposing another to a deadly disease, that is hardly love. Of course, calling St. Paul a homophobe speaks volumes about this individual author’s lack of scriptural knowledge.

He [the speaker’s son] was born gay.

It matters not how he was born, it matters how he behaves.

His conscience is clear because he expresses his sexuality in accordance with his sexual orientation.

A rapist, a polygamist or a prostitute, express their sexuality in accordance with their sexual orientation as well. Does this fact excuse their behavior?

A gay can no more change his sexual orientation than can a heterosexual change his sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is about how one “feels” towards members of the opposite sex. No mortal cares how another individual “feels” about the opposite sex, what is important is how one behaves.

To believe [that there is a God] and [that He would, and his believers should] condemn [homosexual behavior] on such tenuous and improbable presumptions exhibits a cerebrum of low wattage.

Einstein, Newton, Pascal, and practically all of the founding fathers of our nation believed such. I guess that each of them just exhibits a cerebrum of low wattage. This speaker’s egotism apparently knows no bounds.

Why doesn’t a Christian pastor read the Sermon on the Mount and quote Christ on homosexuality?

Possibly for the same reason that a Christian pastor doesn’t read the sermon on the mount and quote Christ on murder or adultery or any number of other sins.

To hate the sin and love the sinner does not absolve them from the sin of hating.

What a logically fallacious argument. No where in the Bible does it state that it is a sin to hate sin. In fact, it is stated many times that God hates sin. By extension, His followers should do likewise.

the least sensitive of heterosexuals must in a moment of contemplation realize the nightmarish world he has helped to create for gay people.

If homosexual practitioners did not behave as they do, there would be no nightmarish world for them regardless of what someone else said concerning homosexual behavior.

Perry Mann is a former teacher, a lawyer, a former prosecuting attorney of Summers County and a regular columnist for the Nicholas Chronicle in Summersville and Huntington News Network.

In a single sentence, we can see the source of the problems with our education system, our legal system and journalism.

[Wings-n-Wind]

Ping = Later