Posted on 10/19/2007 2:23:23 PM PDT by Michael.SF.
Joe Torre had a hunch it would come to this. And when the New York Yankees offered him a one-year contract with a hefty paycut, performance-based bonuses—and no room to negotiate—he was insulted and figured he had no choice but to walk away.
"The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing," Torre said Friday at a news conference. "There really was no negotiation involved. I was hoping there would be, but there wasn't.
"If somebody wants you to do a job, if it takes them two weeks to figure out, yeah, we want to do this, should do this, yeah, you're a little suspicious."
His voice trembling at times, Torre admitted he was uncomfortable and nervous talking about himself. He said his 12 years with the Yankees were the best time of his professional life—but he hasn't ruled out managing elsewhere.
Torre took a morning flight Thursday to Tampa, Fla., walked into George Steinbrenner's office at Legends Field and listened to the team's offer. He said he couldn't accept it, shook hands and left the ballpark, the Yankees' manager no more.
"I offered a concept we may talk about," Torre said. "I don't want to go into Xs and Os here. More a concept that would work for both of us. It was term and how to go about it. But that was it. Money wasn't involved in the suggestion."
After all he had accomplished—four World Series titles, 12 straight years in the playoffs, almost certain entry into the Hall of Fame—and after all the indignities, this was one he wasn't going to stand for.
"I was very much at peace with my decision," Torre said.
The 67-year-old Torre turned down a $5 million, one-year contract—$2.5 million less than he made this season, when the Yankees failed to make it past the first round of the playoffs for the third straight year.
"A difficult day," general manager Brian Cashman said Thursday. "He will always be a Yankee."
Also, it's hard to penalize a coach or manager if his team under-performs for reasons over which he has no control at all (injuries, for example).
The NHL's New Jersey Devils have been one of the most successful teams in North American professional sports over the last 10-15 years, and they insist on using a unique performance-based incentive system for their players. No player gets any incentives for individual performance, but every player's contract includes bonus clauses for team performance -- including $X for every shutout, $Y for making the playoffs, $Z for winning the Stanley Cup, etc.
Oddly enough, I think George Steinbrenner was in Joe Torre’s corner throughout this whole ordeal. Joe specifically mentioned that there were “two people” from the team’s management group that were pushing for them to do whatever it took to rehire him, and my instincts tell me that those two were George Steinbrenner and Brian Cashman.
Naw, I hear Billy Martin is making a comeback.
Depends. If I was the highest paid in my profession and was making 200% more the others in my field were making, a 30% 'cut' might still be higher then I could get elsewhere.
Joe showed a great deal of character in walking way from the offer. Good for him, since character in professional sports seems to be at such a low ebb.
Oddly enough, the disastrous pitching by the one "stable young arm" in their pitching rotation (Chien-Ming Wang) was the single biggest factor in their playoff loss this year.
Depends on if they wanted to cut my pay from 8 million to 5 million or I could go and get a real job say at $50,000 a year with the rest of us.
I have zero sympathy in cases of multi-millionaire entertainers getting a cut.
The Yankees have spent $200M on overpriced hitters and has-been pitching. They have no young talent ... but, instead, are overpaying players who were good 4 or 5 years ago (usually for other teams).
You must not follow the NYY much...you are spouting about things that Cashman has begun to change over the past 2 years and looking toward the future.
No young talent?
Robinson Cano, 2B
Melky Cabrera, CF
Joba Chamberlain, P
Phil Hughes, P
Ian Kennedy, P
Chien Ming Wang, P
Are already on the roster.
Here are some more names you are going to see over the next two years:
Humberto Sanchez, P
Alan Horne, P
JB Cox, P
Russ Ohlendorf, P
Dellin Betances, P
Jose Tabata, OF
Ask any major league scout...the NYY have arguably the DEEPEST crop of minor league pitching talent in MLB. If the NYY let Cashman stay so the plan is not aborted, the NYY are going to be in great shape....one thing you were correct about is that pitching is KING, and the hardest to obtain.
Yet you cared enough to read this thread and post that you didn't care.
I always find it curious that people post on a subject that they have no interest in.
What's the point?
I’m calling BS on that. It wouldn’t depend on anything. If your boss walked up to you right now and asked you to take a 30% pay cut that’s him say you’re over paid, and if you say yes that’s you admitting he’s right. All that crap about how much he’s making compared to others is just more class envy BS. They asked him to take a 30% pay cut and they didn’t even offer to negotiate, it was a take the cut or go away, and that IS an insult and the fact that Torre is smart enough to know it shows he’s smarter than them.
The notable difference between now and then is that this Yankee team at least made the playoffs every year.
One of the all time famous retorts occurred when Babe Ruth had just signed a contract for more money then the President makes. When asked, his response was:
"So how many home runs did the President hit last year?"
It has been about the money since the days that they first charged people to walk through the turnstile.
>> Depends. If I was the highest paid in my profession and was making 200% more the others in my field were making, a 30% ‘cut’ might still be higher then I could get elsewhere.
True ... but if you’re an established multi-millionaire, you wouldn’t need to deal with the insult of a reduced contract offer.
In this respect, he’s a little like Roger Clemens. He’s rich enough that the money itself isn’t as important as what it represents. I’m convinced that Clemens took the money from the Yankees, not for the money itself ... but for the fact that the astronomical offer is an acknowledgement of his greatness as a pitcher, and a means of comparing favorably himself to pitching talent throughout the league. He’s the highest paid pitcher in the history of baseball ... that means something.
Likewise for Torre. He doesn’t need the $5M, and he’d rather not accept a pay-cut (and the insult that a paycut represents), for money he doesn’t need.
If you were worth millions, and really didn’t need to work another day in your life ... would you accept an insulting pay cut? He doesn’t need the Yankees, or their money ... so why deal with the insulting contract offer?
H
You are correct....but in reality, Wang is a number #3 pitcher in a 'good' rotation...which we will have in 1-2 years. Hughes and Chamberlain have a much higher upside than Wang.
All I am saying is that the NYY need to stay the course.
And, there's always the Hillary curse!
The name leading the anti-Torre campaign that I'm hearing is Randy Levine.
Joe's downfall, also according to critique I've read, is his bullpen management.
12 years is a long time, and it is probably time for a change.
Unfortunately, the 'low-ball' offer of a one-year contract, designed to force a resignation rather than fire someone outright, is a wimpy way to make the move, and not what a manager the caliber of Joe Torre deserves.
“I have zero sympathy in cases of multi-millionaire entertainers getting a cut.”
Agreed. And addressing Joe Torre’s situation, there are baseball players who have to take pay cuts all over the game, every year, so why not a manager?
I’m desperately praying the Yankees will insult me, even just a little bit.
Look what happened to the Braves back in the 1990s and much of this decade. They had the best starting rotation in baseball -- and arguably the best in the last few decades. They had three legitimate Hall-of-Famers, two of whom (Maddux and Smoltz) could be considered among the best in the modern era. And yet that only got them one championship in all those years.
Another problem is that a team built to attract large crowds of fans is not the same as a team built to win a championship. The Yankees of the last five years attracted 4+ million fans per year but didn't win any championships. The Yankees of the late 1990s didn't command the same presence and didn't attract quite the same fan base, but they won four championships in five years.
You are calling BS on my opinion of what I would do?
That is pretty funny.
Let's talk numbers. Let say you make $500,000 a year as Tuna wrapper at Safeway.
You have a bad year (by the bosses standards) and he is going to cut your pay 30%. Your new salary would be $350,000.
You are 'insulted'. So you go across the street to another supermarket and find that Tuna wrappers make $200,000 a year there. But with your experience, they will pay you $250,000.
Suddenly $350,000 does not seem so bad does it?
Money talks and BS walks. If Torre can get the same someplace else, more power to him. I'm betting he can't.
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