Your Thoughts on Treason, Please.

Vanity | 1/27/10 | dagogo redux

[dagogo redux]

I am interested in the opinions of the deeper, more serious thinkers and scholars here concerning a matter of great concern to our nation. The questions I pose grew out of several Freeper responses to a Trevor Louden New Zeal BlogSpot posting I made recently.

For a long time now there has been no question in my mind about the intent of the current administration and many in the Congress - that intent being to finalize the transformation of our constitutional republic into a Communist/Socialist/Progressive/Marxist state. I reject any suggestion that Obama and his ilk are merely clueless in their destruction of our institutions and society - what is happening is clearly all planned and purposeful. If you still give them the benefit of the doubt in this regard, then you reject the premise on which my questions are based, and this thread is perhaps not for you.

I seek opinions regarding these simple questions:

1. Is Obama (or others in his circle) committing treason, either by the narrow Constitutional definition found in Article III, or by broader, dictionary definitions?

2. If so, which general areas or which specific acts constitute that treason?

3. If not, what would he have to do, or which line in the “fundamental transformation” he is aiming at would he have to cross before you would consider it treason?

4. Could he succeed in his “fundamental transformation” all the way to a Communist dictatorship, using the powers vested in him by his electoral win, and never commit treason?

5. If you believe he is committing treason, or coming close, how would explain the universal lack of the use of that word by supposed conservatives in the media and those in the supposed opposition party?

I look forward to your thoughtful replies.

[dagogo redux]

I look forward to your thoughtful replies.

[Izzy Dunne]

I think that it’s been so long since treason has been prosecuted that it’s definition has turned to mush: anybody can define it however they want.

And given the polarization of right vs. left these days that’s not going to change soon.

[Paperdoll]

I AGREE. THIS ADMINISTRATION KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS DOING, AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO DO IT. AS I’VE SAID BEFORE, THE FOOT IS IN THE DOOR, AND IT HAS GROWN EXPONENTUALLY TO STEP INSIDE AND TAKE OVER BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF US STRUGGLING TO KEEP THE DOOR SHUT AND THE COUNTRY SAFE.

[I Buried My Guns]

"..I look forward to your thoughtful replies..."

Sadly, you're at FR, but it doesen't hurt to be an optimist.

My snark: Technically, the charge of treason is reserved for citizens of this country.

As Obama is not a citizen of this country, the more accurate appellage would be "Enemy Alien".

And yes, once he is tried and convicted of his many crimes, the appropriate penalty is the ultimate one.

[sickoflibs]

I have to be the party pooper here but you can't try a sitting president for passing (signing) laws you don't like. You can't even sue him for that. Liberals tried that with Bush and the courts threw it out.

How about the way the dems did it? Elections!

[SoldierDad]

I will give thought to your questions and hopefully be able to provide insightful responses. In the meantime, I too believe that Obama and members of his administration know exactly what they are doing, and have planned all along to transform this nation away from it’s Republican form of government to a more marxist, socialist, communist form.

[Oceander]

I have to be the party pooper here but you can't try a sitting president for passing (signing) laws you don't like. You can't even sue him for that. Liberals tried that with Bush and the courts threw it out. How about the way the dems did it? Elections!

Without passing on the merits of the OP's questions, I don't think that that's what the OP or any of the other responses had in mind.

One still places the bulk of one's hopes in elections, but considering that the course of behaviour chosen by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama only makes sense if no future election could present a threat to their continued (ab)use of power, one begins to wonder just exactly what they and their crypto-soviet fellow travellers in organizations like SEIU have in mind.

I approved this post

[sickoflibs]

RE :”One still places the bulk of one's hopes in elections, but considering that the course of behaviour chosen by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama only makes sense if no future election could present a threat to their continued (ab)use of power, one begins to wonder just exactly what they and their crypto-soviet fellow travellers in organizations like SEIU have in mind. “

Really? If they couldn't steal liberal MA how can they steal Ohio for example?

[Cold Heat]

Treason, as a prosecutable offense has been so neutered by PC and other social changes that I seriously doubt it will ever be used again as a crime.

I don't think it is a viable charge any longer and for many reasons.

[Candor7]

Of course the Obama Junta is treasonous.

We have one chance to take back our country using the ballot box in November.

After that , we fight. Civil war.

Nothing could be more clear.All this talk is for people who have not kept themselves informed.

Read Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism.” and Mark Levin’s “Liberty and Tyranny”

You will understand fully what is happening.

[sickoflibs]

RE :” but considering that the course of behaviour chosen by Reid, Pelosi, and Obama only makes sense if no future election could present a threat to their continued (ab)use of power, ‘

You could be misreading this. If they know they will lose big, all the more reason to try to get something done. Plus not doing anything kills them too. At least passing something gets some democrats out to vote. And given they are bleeding, no way will they get a bill with Republicans and liberals together(what Obama really needs) . Neither side wants a deal like that. They are out of options.

[wintertime]

An honest person would be **HONORED** to prove they are a natural born citizen and eligible to be president.

That Obama has gone to so much effort ( even using DOJ attorneys) to hide his past strongly suggests that he is not a natural born citizen.

If he is not a natural born citizen then Obama and those who certified him to be eligible are guilty of treason.

[Aroostook25]

Section. 3. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Yes. Obama and Clinton before him are guilty of "adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

The Republicans in Congress were complicit in treason for not charging Clinton with treason. See the book TREASON.

[Outlaw Woman]

First Post:”..I look forward to your thoughtful replies...”

Your response: Sadly, you’re at FR, but it doesen’t hurt to be an optimist.

My response to you...get out. If you don’t realize the type of individuals that frequent this site by now you do not belong here. Try the dem underground site..(or go back).

[VRWCmember]

My thoughtful reply:

When deranged liberals wanted the Obama administration to pursue war crimes charges against Bush and Cheney, they were attempting to criminalize differences in policy opinions. The idea that Obama and Holder even entertained the notion is rather scary. That said, to swing the pendulum to the other extreme by claiming that Obama’s leftist/marxist philosophies and ideologies, and his attempts to implement them constitutes treason is equally deranged and dangerous.

It would be nice if those in congress and those on the supreme court who still love the Constitution would stand up once in a while and say “Wait a minute! That exceeds the Constitutional limits on the Federal Government!” But even so, we can’t just accuse every policy difference or even every attempt to bypass Constitutional constraints on government as an act of treason.

If the president or his agents pass sensitive information on to our enemies who are engaged in combat against us (whether that combat be in the form of declared acts of war or the form of non-sanctioned - i.e. unlawful - terroristic attacks), or otherwise provide those enemies with aid and comfort, then that would constitute treason. (But let’s not act like the BDS crowd and claim that moving the trials to the mainland or closing down GITMO or even going abroad and apologizing for what a terrible country he thinks we are rises to that level.)

[John.Galt2012]

Based on the design of our democratic republic and the protections provided by the Constitution, it may be virtually impossible to prosecute for treason anyone who seeks or attempts political change through political means, no matter the end. Even if that endstate is a communist or socialist state. (We may be doomed to that end already) The line in the sand will be found somewhere near our electoral process and the way we amend our constitution, because the transformation cannot be complete until we change these. That being said, this is where and when the “red flag” will go up, because the people are sovereign, when they push back, the tendency will be to silence and subjugate them...then you have a problem and IMO treason has occurred. To avoid this, laws have been written, with regard to National Security, FEMA, war powers (which is why, despite promises, we will remain at war in perpetuity)with this in mind...but that is probably another story. The people's defense against this is first the Constitution, second the Supreme Court's interpretation thereof, and finally the 2nd Amendment.

[reagan_fanatic]

There's no doubt, by strict definition, that Obama has committed treason. The problem lies in the changed atmosphere of modern society where treason is an antiquated term more apt to be found in history books as opposed to something seriously considered.

Obama will never be brought up on treason charges, because the Republicans would never have the guts to do it. This is what happens when society is coarsened and dumbed down to the point where it is now.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with this fascist narcissist until he's voted out of office in 2012.

[VRWCmember]

Sadly, you're at FR, but it doesen't hurt to be an optimist.

I'm guessing you forgot to include your sarcasm tag. If, however, you really believe that thoughtful replies are in short supply on FR, then maybe you need to peruse a few more of the threads here. You will find more reason and more thoughtful and energetic debate - along with well articulated rationale - here on FR than at almost any other forum on the internet. FRegards.

[bvw]

Yes, I would ask for charges of treason to be levied against this man, Obama. He has provided Aid and Comfort to our enemies during a time of War.

Specific acts:

(1) Ordering that the Detroit terror bomber be held under the same level of civil rights protections accorded citizens during times of peace, and thus stopping the timely interrogation of that enemy warrior.

(2) Ordering that mastermind of 9/11, USS Cole, and other acts of terror against us, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who had already plead guilty to war crimes in a military trial be transferred to be be held under the same level of civil rights protections accorded citizens during times of peace, and thus stopping further interrogation of that enemy warrior, and providing him a public forum to speak against us, and to embolden the enemy.

(3) Ordering rules of engagement of the enemy which place our forces in grave danger, and which upon investigation are likely to be found to have caused US casualties without any strategic or tactical gain to us, but which can be shown to have emboldened and encouraged the enemy.

(4) Ordering rules of engagement of the pirates who hijacked the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama off of Somalia in April 2009 which favored the pirates and put the kidnapped captain at risk.

(Others.)

General Acts:

(1) International speeches in which America and American ideals are denigrated thus serving to embolden the enemy.

(2) International speeches in which past good faith actions of our commanders and forces are called war crimes, such as torture.

(3) Demoralizing our special and regular forces by manifold actions, policies and statements, such as aggressive prosecutions for actions made in the heat of combat, and many others.

(Others.)

[I Buried My Guns]

Jeez, lighten up people.

That FR is known for levity is no secret.