Posted on 10/21/2011 1:13:18 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
I’ve been saying this from day one, that the 47% who pay no fed income tax would never give up that status. So much for, “skin in the game”.
I’ll still vote for Cain.
And they get it all back (and then some) in “Earned Income Tax Credits.” The “rich” already pay their “fair” share of income taxes. Corporations don’t pay taxes - they just collect them from their customers. The poor need to pay some income tax if they income.
In any case, what we need to do is go over COMPLETELY to a national sales tax - i.e. the Fair Tax.
Tax consumption, not productivity.
RE: Yep the first $20K is not taxed....always has been that way so why the surprise?
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The problem is people never bother to READ his plan which is on his website.
This has always been part of his plan. Now that he articulates it, we see former supporters leaving his bandwagon — proof positive that these former supporters never bothered to try to understand what he said.
CUT AND PASTE FROM HIS WEBSITE:
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan
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Phase One
Our current economic crisis calls for bold action to truly stimulate the economy and Renew America back to its greatness. The 9-9-9 Plan gets Washington D.C. out of the business of picking winners and losers, using the tax code to dole out favors, and dividing the country with class warfare. It is fair, simple, transparent and efficient. It taxes everything once and nothing twice. It taxes the broadest possible base at the lowest possible rates. It is neutral with respect to savings and consumption,capital and labor, imports and exports and whether companies pay dividends or retain earnings.
9% Business Flat Tax
* Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
* Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone
9% Individual Flat Tax.
* Gross income less charitable deductions.
* Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
9% National Sales Tax.
* Unlike a state sales tax, which is an add-on tax that increases the price of goods and services, this is a replacement tax. It replaces taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. By replacing higher marginal rates in the production process with lower marginal rates, marginal production costs actually decline, which will lead to prices being the same or lower, not higher.
Economic Impact
* According to former Reagan Treasury official Gary Robbins, of Fiscal Associates, the 9-9-9 Plan will expand GDP by $2 trillion, create 6 million new jobs, increase business investment by one third, and increase wages by 10%.
Also the same “poor” will get some sort of “rebate” or “refund” on the 9% sales tax. Skin in the game? HAH!
The Smithereens. One after 909.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJMIVU6GCk4
Yes. That would have been the way to go.
Keep it 999, but set a standard deduction that is the same for everyone.
Yes, they would still hollar this “helps the rich,” but they couldn’t say it “hurt the poor.”
And the “poor” would still have to pay sales tax like everybody else.
Herman just lost me.
What I liked about 999 was that it got that 47% who currently pay NO income tax to at least start shelling out some. Even if it’s a measly 9%, it re-engages them with some skin in the game.
See? Even Herman Cain is already providing adaptation of his sales tax based on purchaser and/or location. So it begins...
We’ll have to see if this is an exemption (I am starting to not fully trust Hot Air’s reportage on Cain’s plan) or a standard deduction available to everyone.
Most of these types of tax reform plans had the first say $20,000 of income as a standard deduction for EVERYONE.
Yes, this would make the plan 909 for some people, the very (can we say “truly”?) “poor.” But the overall concept would still be that everyone pays taxes on income after the same standard deduction and at the same rate.
A universal prebate would do that. Say someone was the individual poverty level was set at 20K. If everyone received an $1800 check (more for couples and families), including the rich, the poverty level sales tax would be prepaid.
Of course, giving everyone money might require a slightly higher level of initial tax... 10-10-10... but it would answer your issue without the necessity for record-keeping as to income, which is one of the problems with our current IRS-driven system.
They still have more skin in the game with the NRST. That’s one of the major advantages of going that route.
Also, all 47% of those presently not paying taxes are not at or below the poverty level.
Our present tax code doesn’t count welfare benefits, including food stamps, as taxable income! So a person can be receiving several thousand dollars a year and it not be subject to tax.
Also welfare benefits are not counted in determining who is “below the poverty level.” IOW, you can be getting thousands of dollars a year in welfare, but still be counted by the government as “below the poverty level.”
All that said, if instead of exempting that from tax, everyone were given a standard deduction of say $20K (emphasis: EVERYONE), those who truly have no income above the standard deduction would pay 0% income tax.
Other people, essentially, would see their welfare benefits reduced by 9%. So 999 would actually also accomplish a bit of entitlement reform as well.
Oh brother, That’s the problem!
The lower income levels don’t have any “skin in the game” and don’t understand/care if taxes go up or down. They just want more freebies. They must pay something, even if it’s a $1.00 a week.
I do hope people evaluate things, not just have a kneejerk reaction.
I had read over Cain’s plan several times, but that doesn’t mean I always remember every detail of it.
So your post about what Cain’s plan actually said about a deduction for lower income levels is very helpful. Thanks.
Actually, I didn’t realize or had forgotten that Cain’s plan always included this deduction.
Take your time and evaluate this thoroughly. Don’t let one news report get you discouraged.
I don't think so.
Cain simply made clear that those under a certain income level would end up paying no income tax. So for them the plan would be 909.
Many have argued that 999 could never pass because it "hurts the poor" and "makes poor people pay income taxes."
Now what will they argue?
This doesn’t mean the entire 47% or whatever percent that are not paying taxes now will not pay taxes under 999.
It simply means that for those with the very lowest income will be paying no tax on it.
It’s not 909 for 47% of the population.
The pre-bate seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to avoid some record-keeping.
Why not just make everyone file an EZ type form and give everyone the same standard deduction for the poverty-level income?
Then those who have no taxable income beyond the standard deduction owe no tax, but still file (as is required today).
The pre-bate seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to avoid some record-keeping.
Why not just make everyone file an EZ type form and give everyone the same standard deduction for the poverty-level income?
Then those who have no taxable income beyond the standard deduction owe no tax, but still file (as is required today).
The pre-bate seems like a lot of trouble to go through just to avoid some record-keeping.
Why not just make everyone file an EZ type form and give everyone the same standard deduction for the poverty-level income?
Then those who have no taxable income beyond the standard deduction owe no tax, but still file (as is required today).
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