Are we be better off with the thousands of factories shut down and millions of jobs lost?

Ted Cruz was on with Jeff Kuhner re: free trade ^

[Jim Robinson]

Are we be better off today with the thousands of U.S. factories that have shut down and millions of American jobs lost and the trillions in accumulated debt that we've run up in the last couple decades of free trade?

And, of course, this is due to many factors including such things as:

Big government

Regulations

High taxes

Unions driving up costs

Cheap labor overseas

Fewer regulations overseas

Lower taxes overseas

Trade deficits

etc.,

And doubly exasperated by poor trade deals?

Or is this all a myth?

Are we better off with cheaper foreign (cheap) goods, fewer U.S. factories, fewer U.S. jobs, higher unemployment and welfare, higher taxes and higher national debt?

Will this spiral out of control until we lose our country?

Is ushering in free trade before (or without) reducing our own costs the equivalent of national suicide?

[central_va]

government, unions, regulations, high labor costs = excuses to offshore and re-import product duty free.

[Kenny]

Cruz has now come out in full support for Obamatrade (TPP) so he’ll be talking in circles from here on out.

[Steely Tom]

Basically, the "elites" of our country - possessed of educations that allow them to manage the lives and property of millions of people from afar, with the aid of information technology - have decided that the noise, the smell, and the sight of the kind of factories that allow ordinary, non-U people to earn a good living and experience a feeling of self-worth, are too injurious to their idea of an antiseptically clean environment to be worth keeping.

So, those manufacturing jobs are shipped elsewhere. To places where they have to worry about things like where their next meal is coming from, and how to find a drink of water that doesn't put a parasite into them that ruins their health for the rest of their life. The people who live in places like that aren't bothered by a bad smell, or a smokestack, because they're just happy to be able to put a roof over their heads.

But here in America, non-super-educated people like that are S.O.L. And politicians and media people pander to them, displacing blame anywhere but where it belongs.

[BlatherNaut]

Is ushering in free trade before (or without) reducing our own costs the equivalent of national suicide?

Yes.

Economic suicide = National suicide.

[indcons]

Happens when manufacturing becomes unsustainable due to overzealous regulators (democrats) and trade union bosses (democrats).

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

National Review Writer: Working-Class Communities ‘Deserve To Die’

[bigbob]

I’m not singling out Walmart, but here is a very interesting visualization - take a few minutes and watch:

http://projects.flowingdata.com/walmart/

Now we all know Walmart claims to have “lowest prices always”, but we who live in smaller communities at least also know the has been a price to pay. Are we better off now with a couple of acres of asphalt and bigbox store, or when we had thriving “mom and pop” stores and downtowns that people actually felt safe going to? How many towns benefited from the generosity of local business owners who gave back when they had the opportunity? How many churches, sports leagues, and non-profits were taken care of by local donations by people who worked in local stores and were’t just minimum wage-slaves with a blue apron?

Trump says he likes free trade but it has to be smart trade an fair trade. The Walmart example is a good one to pose the same question: are we better off?

[central_va]

I'll point out that this is a much more complicated issue than most people realize. I've been saying for years that the number of U.S. factory jobs that have been lost to outsourcing is dwarfed by the number of these jobs that have been lost to automation and technology.

You keep saying that but it is a stupid and dumb argument. Automating a factory in the USA is good. Shipping the factory to China then automating it is a catastrophe for the USA for many reasons. You are mixing apples and oranges.

[ConservativeMind]

How do you figure? US companies have $2 trillion off shore they won't bring back because they will be taxed at the corporate rates.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/with-latest-deal-ge-to-face-4-billion-tax-hit-on-repatriated-earnings-2015-04-10

The United States has the third highest general top marginal corporate income tax rate in the world at 39.1 percent (consisting of the 35% federal rate and a combined state rate), exceeded only by Chad and the United Arab Emirates .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States

[tallyhoe]

Cruz has now come out in full support for Obamatrade (TPP) so he’ll be talking in circles from here on out.

BS He is against TPP..

[central_va]

Dumb. How much better would we be if we had those jobs lost to China and the rest of the world?

[Fiddlstix]

[Alberta's Child]

How’s that “apples and oranges?” In either case the manufacturing jobs are lost, no?

[Iscool]

Are we better off with cheaper foreign (cheap) goods, fewer U.S. factories, fewer U.S. jobs, higher unemployment and welfare, higher taxes and higher national debt?

There's 95 million people out there who have given up looking for work...But yet they still eat everyday...On someone's dime other than their own...

Cruz says to cut corporate taxes, regulations etc. and this will give the corporations more cash to invest in their business and increase jobs...Eventually...

The flaw in the plan is that while the other countries manipulate their currency, we will never be able to compete so the American corporations will spend their new windfall in those countries where they can make bigger profits...

Course everyone knows this but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway...

I'm sticking with Trump...

[odawg]

“Is ushering in free trade before (or without) reducing our own costs the equivalent of national suicide?”

Yes, well on our way, with TPP the coup de grace.

[Alberta's Child]

P.S. — How can an automated manufacturing process in China possibly compete with an automated manufacturing process in the U.S., if the more expensive U.S. labor is no longer part of the cost differential?

[Iscool]

if you listen to CNBC you would think our service economy is awesome

Even if it was, that's going too...

[BwanaNdege]

Protectionism is the lazy way out. It may provide a short term solution to the problem.

We as a nation need to realize that the myriad, feel-good government bureaucracies (EPA, OSHA, EEOC, etc) are a major cause of the jobs losses.

Another major cause is our corporate tax structure.

Deficit spending has made the dollar worth $0.14 compared to 50 years ago.

Finally, unions need to recognize that they must compete, sooner or late, with foreign labor.

Higher tariffs mean that anyone purchasing anything imported is subsidizing union labor, government regulations and high taxes.

Try living for a while in a country with high import duties or trade restrictions. It is a real aggravation!

The USA used to be able to compete with the rest of the world. We can again, if we choose to do so.

[Alberta's Child]

You make a lot of good points, but I would suggest dropping the whole “foreign countries manipulating their currencies” line in these discussions. Over the last 15 years the U.S. has been one of the worst offenders in this regard.

[FreeReign]

I've always felt that less government would solve our problems. Fewers regulations, lower taxes, less government spending and debt and less government involvement in trade deals.

Am I wrong?