Posted on 10/27/2017 7:14:03 AM PDT by Enlightened1
The Catalan regional parliament has voted to declare independence from Spain, just as the Spanish government appears set to impose direct rule.
The move was backed 70-10 in a ballot boycotted by opposition MPs.
Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy earlier told senators direct rule was needed to return "law, democracy and stability" to Catalonia.
The crisis began when Catalans backed independence in a disputed vote earlier this month.
The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part in the referendum, 90% were in favour of independence. But Spain's Constitutional Court had ruled the vote illegal.
In all, the motion declaring independence was approved with 70 in favour, 10 against and two abstentions in the 135-seat chamber.
Immediately afterwards, Mr Rajoy called for all Spaniards to remain calm, promising to "restore legality" to Catalonia.
Spain's Senate is still to vote on whether for the first time to enact Article 155 of the Spanish constitution, which empowers the government to take "all measures necessary to compel" a region in case of a crisis.
It would enable Madrid to fire Catalan leaders, and take control of the region's finances, police and public media.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
Very well put. I’ve been recommending Homage to Catalonia here for a long time, it’s an excellent, quick read that gives real insight into the writing of 1984 and Animal Farm.
One way of looking at Catalan or Scottish secession from Spain and Britain, respectively, is the general principle of governments that are smaller and thus closer to the general public. Catalans and Scots are politically to the Left of Spaniards or Britons, respectively, so independence would mean that Spain and Britain would become more moderate politically. The same could be said of a California or Northeastern secession movement, vs. the United States as a whole. Our country, minus California and the states north and east of Pennsylvania, would be more conservative.
“We could send our leftists over to help.”
But which side would the fight for? (Maybe we could sent the ANTIFA kiddies over?)
The Madrid government, for all its flaws (if they had let the referendum proceed, It may not have passed), is a representative, elected, and constitutional government. Catalonia has members in that body. The Catalan government, instead of exhausting constitutional means first, is bound to unilaterally proclaim independence.
Our struggle for independence only really began after the Parliament in London both proclaimed a right to tax the colonies and rejected our right to choose members of Parliament. Even then, the colonial legislatures attempted to redress their grievances within the system. Independence was almost forced on us when Parliament blocked all other alternatives.
We are not at that point in Spain. I fear the Catalan government has miscalculated the strength of their position.
I so agree with you. This has nothing to do with Globalism. This is a region of a country. It’s no different than if Virginia wanted to break away seems too many here are viewing this thru the eyes of how they feel about Globalism. This is not even ‘a Brexit’. The UK was a country belonging to the European Union. Now if an area in The country of England wanted to leave England that is more apples to apples. It’s very arrogant. Just as they were when they wanted to bring communism into Spain which brought in the Spanish civil war. Screw Barcelona. I wish they would leave only because I dislike the arrogance of that region and have for most of my life. But, they do not get to leave because that is not how it works. This is not a new subject for me, but a regular topic of conversation for most of my life. Too many here are new to this subject and are viewing this they ‘anti Globalism glasses- and it’s not that at all.
“The Catalans are leftists. True. But that doesn’t lessen their right to be free of a central government that bleeds them to eternally subsidize the rest of the country and the Madrid regime.”
It’s debatable whether Catalunya subsidizes the rest of Spain. The debt markets subsidize Spain, which has a national debt roughly the equivalent of its GDP. Catalunya has long championed loose national fiscal policy. When they reap what they sow (crushing debt and economic stagnation due to, among other things, socialist intervention in markets), they demand a fresh national start, presumably without any of the burdens they hoisted on the “Madrid regime” as you call it.
I would say its not unlike a marriage in which the wife was a profligate spender and while the husband fought it for awhile, in reality, he wasn’t too disciplined either and loved to party, so he went along with the lavish lifestyle. At some point, the wife decides she was out bc he’s holding her back... and, although she has a job too, she demands that as part of the divorce he has to take all of their marital debt with him.
If they could work out a solution on that issue, then so be it. Let the leftists alone. They’re just acknowledging the reality that with the EU, there’s really no good end game for sovereign nations so you might as well go that party single.
Very true. Why can’t others see this?
Iodi90 is absolutely correct. They are ‘pinkos’ thru and thru. What you want to believe about them does not make it so.
I suggest reading their history and how it formed that area. Better yet, speak with some people from the Madrid region.
Many American Conservatives imply the Catalonia independence movement is in sink with American Conservatives disdain for the EU’s excesses and “globalism” in general.
I am thinking that may be a misreading of the politics of Spain and of the politics of Catalonia.
Yes, it is another “centrifugal” force, but I think more of it is unique to Spain and Catalonia than it is joined to the same causes American Conservatives support.
I sure hope so.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
I tried like hell to post this with proper spacing. Even separating with dashes. I have no idea why the ‘return bar’ would not cooperate.
The msm is only reporting on the pro separatist movement. I find it interesting that their is a large population who do not want it and are not being heard.
Btw 1/5 of Catalan’s immigrants are from Morocco. Followed by Romania, China, Pakistan.
https://www.idescat.cat/poblacioestrangera/?res=a&nac=a&b=12&lang=en
We are a Republic too. A Free Republic.
North Korea, China and Venezuela are fake Republics.
Spain is a Socialist country and part of th E.U. which is allowing all the Islamic migration.
Catalan wants to keep their culture and do not want to pay more taxes that the E.U. Wants them to.
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