Posted on 10/27/2017 7:14:03 AM PDT by Enlightened1
Re your tag line, George Orwell’s experiences in Spain during their civil war (recalled in his book “Homage to Catalonia”) with the many varieties of socialism—communist, anarchist, socialists of all stripes—led to his disillusionment, arguendo, with socialism sui generis, and his subsequent dystopian allegorical novels, `Animal Farm’ and `Nineteen Eighty-four’.
“Wait, 90% of 43% means that fewer then 4 out of 10 Catalans have declared the desire to be independent of Spain. That’s a terrible basis on which to found a country. I don’t think they’ve thought this through.”
Fortune favors the brave.
The USA became independent of Great Britain with as little as 15% support according to some historians. If Catalan independence has 40% active support while the rest are content to sit at home and watch the revolution on TV then the 40% are the only people who matter.
“this whole thing was done outside the normal election system.”
Sorry, but that’s an invalid argument since the Madrid regime has said that any vote on independence is illegal.
That said you can’t have the vote in the ‘normal’ system as there is no normal way to do this.
Likewise there is never a legal way to topple a tyrannical government...you just do it.
Well let’s see if they’re willing to win their independence the old-fashion way.
“If Spanish civil war I is any help in predicting what might happen, yeah, this could get ugly.”
It would be of no small irony to see Spain call upon the EU for help and then we could German bombs dropping on Barcelona again.
Saw this coming when the head honcho sent his wife and kids packing...
Let’s see if Spain and the EU are willing to maintain their grip on power the old fashioned way.
I don’t get the comparisons to American independence. The colonists had no recourse but violence because they had no say in their government. “No taxation without representation”. Catalans may have taxation but they also have representation. Also, as others have pointed out, the leaders of the independence movement are far to the Left. Not a George Washington or Thomas Jefferson in the bunch.
This is a bigger deal than most people understand.
Will there be a Civil War in Spain?
Oh my.
What could possibly go wrong? (See: Spanish Civil War.)
Actually I think that number was lower than that. When I took a course on American History back in college our Professor said only about 10% were in favor of the Revolution. So it was a low number regardless.
What proportion of Americans was in favor of the Revolution when it was started?
And the Russians have a lot of new stuff they might like to try out, as the Germans did in `36 with their dive bombers.
Fewer than 4 out of 10 Americans wanted independence from Britain.
American independence was about a lot more than just taxation. Likewise so is Catalonia’s independence.
As to your argument about representation the Catalan point of view is that the majority of Spain levies taxes on them, they have to pay, and the rest of Spain reaps the benefits.
In the USA due to the fact that people can write off their state taxes then the result is that families like my own who live in low-tax states are subsidizing the frivolous spending of high-tax states like California and New York. How am I represented in that arrangement? I live in Wyoming and I’m being made to foot the bill for California’s high speed rail, free education to illegal aliens, gun control, and etc.
The Catalans are leftists. True. But that doesn’t lessen their right to be free of a central government that bleeds them to eternally subsidize the rest of the country and the Madrid regime.
Wishful thinking. The Catalans want independence from Spain, not from the EU. Most of the Catalan independence advocates want to remain in the EU (even though the EU opposes Catalan independence), albeit as Catalonia rather than as part of Spain. They resent rule by Madrid but not by Brussels, and reject "Spanishness" rather than Globalism. That's why I can't bring myself to be too enthusiastic about their independence movement, any more than I can bring myself to support the anti-London but pro-EU (and pro-immigration) Scottish independence movement.
.@RTenfrancais #endirect: clameur de joie de dizaines de milliers d’indépendantistes à #Barc… https://www.pscp.tv/RTenfrancais/1vAxRMPbWgYJl
http://www.ushistory.org/us/11b.asp
Good stuff. Mel Gibson’s movie `The Patriot’ shows some American Tories in action.
I love reading Brit reviews of the movie: it makes them apoplectic.
(But when has Hollyweird let the truth stand in the way of a good story? :0)
Word bro... Continental Congress 1774
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