On NAFTA, Canadians wonder if they’ve been outmaneuvered by Trump

WaPo ^ | 29 Aug 2018 | Alan Freeman

[mandaladon]

OTTAWA — Shortly after his election in late 2015, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declared “Canada is back,” promising a renewed Canadian presence on the world stage.

Trudeau has taken political hits since then for minor lapses, such as a luxury family holiday visit to a Caribbean island and an ill-fated trip to India, but his biggest challenge, just a year before Canadians go to the polls, has come from the leader of Canada’s longtime military ally and economic partner.

Now, Canadians worried that their government has been sidelined in crucial trade talks and may be forced to back down on important economic issues, having been outmaneuvered by President Trump and possibly sold out by an erstwhile Mexican ally.

Several rounds of tense discussions about the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) culminated Monday in a trade pact that excluded Canada, prompting Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland to cut short a trip to Europe and dash to Washington for the first trilateral trade talks with the United States and Mexico in five weeks.

[JudyinCanada]

The US/Mexico deal could not raise Justin’s eyebrows - he has to do that manually.

Yes, he’s in trouble. Even thick headed Canadians realize he’s pathetic...although how they didn’t know that before voting him in, I’ll never know.

My very small circle (because I’m not a brain-dead lefty) thinks that Trudeau is going to rally the troops by making President Trump the bad guy. Going to war with him (economically) will unite the voters. Frankly, I hold little hope that it won’t happen.....lots of backholes up here.

[catnipman]

“On NAFTA, Canadians wonder if they’ve been outmaneuvered by Trump”

yes and no ... they HAVE been outmaneuvered, but not by President Trump: they outmaneuvered themselves ...

[poconopundit]

.. electroplated... LOL. Good one, spokeshave2!

[GOPJ]

Was China dumping goods through Mexican loopholes in NAFTA??

[catnipman]

“Trump be like “ build those factories, import and export those raw materials and cars, drop your protectionism.., or get off my lawn””

ROTFLOL!

[poconopundit]

Thanks for the intell, Judy. Enjoy listening to podcasts from Jordan Peterson. All is not lost when you’ve got talent like that defending free speech and rational government.

[JudyinCanada]

I love Dr. Peterson as well. What’s sad is that common sense speakers are revolutionary.

It reminds me of the saying, “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

[FreedomPoster]

That’s what they get for believing the government and media’s PR. LOL is right!

[catnipman]

“We may have huge amounts too, but the end game is having your neighbours deplete their resources first.”

that’s the way i look at it too ... which is why i don’t like seeing us export our LNG ...

[newfreep]

One of my favorite lines in Animal House!

[poconopundit]

…[The] trade pact that excluded Canada, prompting [Canada's] Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland to cut short a trip to Europe and dash to Washington... After seeing her picture, I was intrigued to explore the career of Foreign Minister Freeland.   I could tell from the bright purple dress she's a suave, understated diplomat with prodigious administrative skills as an ex-journalist. Turns out Ms. Freeland wrote a book in 2011 on the "Rise of the New Global Super Rich" that positions her as a progressive champion of the people. I read many glowing words of praise for the book on Amazon Reviews, but I think a 3-star critic's comments were particularly revealing: "While the title seems to be critical of the global oligarchy, the content soft pedals their ambitions.   One is left with the feeling that the author is ambiguous about the subject." Ambiguous?!   Ha.   She fits right in with those jet-setting elites!   Brava, Ms. Freeland!   The book's title gives you the perfect cover for your job as globalist foreign minister tool. And as to your political future?   Alas, that's a bit of a problem because you've just been stumped by the Trump!

[poconopundit]

Trudeau is enormously entertaining. He seems to be more popular than the effervescent airhead, Occasion Cortex.

But thank your lucky stars and consider this: if Trump had lost to Hillary, and Hillary couldn't function because of health problems, look at who we could have had as our POTUS:

[woodbutcher1963]

You are forgetting the exchange rate on US dollars vs. Canadian dollar.

The least expensive lumber in the world is produced in the southern United States.

It is also a function of production verses demand. Canada produces more lumber than it consumes domestically.

Yes, it costs less to transport from Castlegar, BC to Coeur D’Alene, ID than it does from Warrenton, OR to Coeur D’Alene. My 2x10 example/trade. It is a function of the mileage @ $3.00/mile. That is why people in Texas buy southern yellow pine grown and sawn in Texas.

I sell some European lumber in North Carolina. Most of the eastern cost of the US has ports with lumber coming in from Germany, Austria, Sweden and Russia. I sell it to a customer in Goldsboro, NC. The boat comes into Wilmington, NC. The trucking from the port makes it competitive into NC & SC. It will not be competitive in Memphis, TN because the trucking freight it too expensive. So, yes it is a function of freight and the exchange rate between the EURO and the US dollar.

All commodities(oil, lumber, wheat , corn, rice, coffee) sell throughout the world based on their transportation cost and their exchange rate with various currencies.

AS far as the EPA. Yes, they have driven many industries overseas. So has OSHA. We sell ice melter products in the winter months(rock salt and calcium chloride). Most of the rock salt comes from mines around the great lakes. They also mine rock salt in NM and UT. The rock salt we sell in the northeast comes from a mine south of Rochester, NY. The customers who buy rock salt in Montana get it from Salt Lake in Utah. It is a function of freight costs.

The calcium chloride we buy comes from DOW chemical in Michigan. They are one of the only producers left in the US. Almost all the rest of the calcium chloride used in the US comes from China. I suspect it has something to do with the governments regulations of chemical plants.

[DoughtyOne]

Inspector Jacques Clouseau Justin Trudeau is on the case.

[Oatka]

Remember that a big selling point of NAFTA was that it would alleviate illegal immigration?

Yeah, I remember that. "If NAFTA passes, 'they' won't be coming up here." Noone jumped them on that.

[x]

>> Remember that a big selling point of NAFTA was that it would alleviate illegal immigration?

> Yeah, I remember that. "If NAFTA passes, 'they' won't be coming up here." Noone jumped them on that.

______________________________________________

[It is a myth that] NAFTA will reduce illegal immigration. As manufacturing in northern Mexico expands, hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers will be drawn north. They will quickly find that wages in the Mexican maquiladora plants cannot compete with wages anywhere in the US. Out of economic necessity, many of these mobile workers will consider illegally immigrating into the US. In short, NAFTA has the potential to increase illegal immigration, not decrease it.

Source: Save Your Job, Save Our Country, by Ross Perot, p. 72 , Jan 1, 1993

[Oatka]

[Perot]As manufacturing in northern Mexico expands, hundreds of thousands of Mexican workers will be drawn north. They will quickly find that wages in the Mexican maquiladora plants cannot compete with wages anywhere in the US. Out of economic necessity, many of these mobile workers will consider illegally immigrating into the US.

So true. My sister had a place about 100 miles down the Eastern side of Baja Calif. After NAFTA kicked in, she asked some of the locals about working at the new plants there. Almost to a man, they responded like "Are you crazy? Why should we do the same job down here as at lower wage?"

[Paul R.]

What, exactly, do we need from Canada?? What natural resource , manufacturing, or technology do the socialists up north possess??

Well, IMO, they do have the best tasting walleye.... ;-)

socialists up north

As an aside, I would guess that in many instances Canadian regs & such are as bad or worse than ours... Maybe someone more knowledgeable can comment further.

[poconopundit]

Bookmark.

Woodbutcher, I read your comments on this thread with great interest. Your points are fascinating and it’s rare to find such trade expertise on FR, and to have it presented so clearly.

You show how adaptive the market is. Capitalism finds a way to get the products it wants or needs.

If you apply pressure on one end, it creates opportunities somewhere else.

Your mentioned the least expensive lumber in the world is produced in the southern United States.

As I drive the highways of Georgia, I’ve noticed that logging operators have come along and thinned the edge of the forest as it meets the highway.

So they are beautifying the highway, preventing the spread of fires, and extracting wood for lumber all at the same time. Big machines with long arms come along and grab a tree, cut it down, and haul it away so it can be loaded into trucks.

Found a cool video showing this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JicItt4CxlI

Never underestimate American ingenuity.

[Woodman]

“What, exactly, do we need from Canada??”

I like their snow shovels. The really do a nice job and last a long time down here.