Posted on 01/12/2019 8:17:46 AM PST by KC_Lion
Germany’s defence minister has confirmed that “a united EU military is becoming a reality,” after her ally and Chancellor Angela Merkel backed Emmanuel Macron’s call for a “real European army.”
“Europe’s army is already taking shape,” Ursula von der Leyen wrote in an opinion piece for Handelsblatt on Thursday.
“Germany and France are the driving forces in defense,” Ms von der Leyen boasted, adding that “We’re moving even further ahead with our close partner France” after the two countries agreed to sign a “new Elysèe Treaty” which, amongst other efforts to, in effect, merge aspects of the two countries, includes common defense.
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A common European defence force was labelled a “dangerous fantasy” by remain campaigners during the 2016 Brexit referendum, after Eurosceptics had warned that continued membership of the bloc would entail being pulled into an EU army.
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German Chancellor Angela Merkel enthusiastically backed her French globalist ally, saying, “What is really important, if we look at the developments of the past year, is that we have to work on a vision of one day creating a real, true European army,” with Brussels bureaucrats expressed their “delight” that France and Germany were taking the lead.
(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...
“Why should an American conservative care? “
Because history says the Europeans will screw this up? I just want a commitment from all major presidential candidates going forward that when the Euros mess up, we stay out.
The world is a complicated place. Every country is flawed. Some more than others. Saudi Arabia is in 7th Century but their Crown Prince is pro-Western and is trying to modernize the country. Already, he stripped the power from religious police. With his reforms, maybe they'll get to 17th Century. You have to remember Europe went through enlightenment with the discussion of our "natural rights". Look at other countries like Russia and China. So it makes a big difference on what sort of background our culture is from.
This truth post is
+1000
RE: “The EU army is intended to ensure EU member nation compliance with Brussels. The eastern members such as Hungary, Poland, Romania, the Czech republic, Greece, and Italy are not fully obedient these days.
This is Germany wanting a force with a legal right to go anywhere inside the EU it pleases and enforcing Brussels rules.
-> Its a constabulary force.” <-
Right now, Poland would kick their collectivist butts.
The modern German Army (Bundeswehr) is hyper sensitive to comparisons to the SS and the Wehrmacht. The German government intentionally holds them back and is extremely reticent to allow aggressive moves or attitudes. The Bundeswehr is painted as a defense force, nothing more. Recall the tip toeing when they sent them to Afghanistan.
And it’s the Bundeswehr which will dominate an EU force; the French will claim ownership but nobody will believe that.
Their main mission will be to suppress the indigenous European populations and pave the way for more Muslims and Africans to move into Europe as others here have pointed out. As for going up against the Russian Army, I have met those guys. Maybe a part of the Bundeswehr would do OK against them but the other guys - the French, the “Belgians” (whoever they are) etc - will get stomped in a conventional fight. The real fight would be between the old Warsaw Pact allies and the Russians - Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians - people who still remember what it was like being kicked around by the Russians.
But that’s not a hell of a lot of people.
Doesn’t matter. Isn’t gonna come to that. Putin is getting long of tooth and the Russian people just want a job, a pension, and access to Western goods. The IKEA store in Moscow is busy all the time. If you open a Costco in Ostankinskaya it’ll be flooded with people.
A force analysis of an EU military would focus on their technological capabilities and come up with a strong force evaluation. But the social and political will is not there, except in a few quarters, and thus it’s not going to be a Fourth Reich army.
What I wonder about is those Eastern European countries....Poland, Ukraine, etc who think it's Russia they have to worry about.
I doubt that this will be a successful enterprise.
Very intriguing point. I usually tend to be in the middle and it is a difficult question. In a revisionist sense, I question WWI and II and most of post war "entanglements" even though I served and would never hesitate to do it again.
“Germany will supply the guns. France will supply the white flags.”
So retarded. The Brits ran away at Dunkirk and surrendered Singapore to a force 1/3rd their size but we never hear about tea sipping surrender monkeys. The Germans surrendered at Stalingrad and all across North Africa. We had camps here in America utterly filled with them.
In WWI the French fought hard and lost something like 1.1 million soldiers, holding the Germans into a 60 mile band for most of the war. 1 million Germans attacked Verdun held by 200k French and they fought it to a standstill with horrifying tenacity the world had never seen.
In WWII their military fought just as hard but lost to the new German combined armed tactics that left them outclassed. In a 6 week battle, they inflicted close to 30k dead on the Germans, 100k wounded, but imploded when the Brits on their north flank fled the battlefield. Knocked out close to 800 tanks,
And whatever the past, these days an average French soldier is worth 10 Germans.
“Maybe a part of the Bundeswehr would do OK against them but the other guys - the French, the “Belgians” (whoever they are) etc - will get stomped in a conventional fight.”
You have to be kidding. The Bundeswehr is a sad joke when compared to the French army of today. That is across the board, from the squad level riflemen, to armor, to air forces, up to and including nuclear weapons. The Germans today are deficient no matter what the metric, equipment, discipline, size, recent experience, you name it.
Please point us to any Bundeswehr unit that could even slightly impede a Russian invasion, or could even slightly equal the combat power of France today. It’s not even close.
The Germans are the weak sisters of Europe. As they really should be kept forever.
“Every country is flawed. Some more than others. Saudi Arabia is in 7th Century but their Crown Prince is pro-Western and is trying to modernize the country. Already, he stripped the power from religious police. With his reforms, maybe they’ll get to 17th Century.”
Then good luck. But I didn’t see a word explaining why that is the slightest concern of America. The country is ful of the laziest, inbred, hostile sunni theocratic throwbacks found on this planet.
The answer is to not allow them any access to our country until they are civilized. The truth is, they are not capable of it. It’s just a fact.
I generally value your opinion.
But in this case, I’m speaking from personal interaction and observation. The French may have the toys, and they do have some hard characters in the Special Forces, but the actual army itself is...well...French. And Algerian. And African (Senegalese, mainly. More Colonials...).
The Germans in the Bundeswehr...they want to be a German army. But are held back. As you said, “As they really should be kept forever”. So I’m talking about the character of the people. They might not be a big force but in a fight, unrestrained...they would be Germans.
The culture of Germany is much different now by design. Obviously an aristocratic woman with 7 children would not have been possible as a defense minister 70 years ago. And the actual soldiers and officers are acutely aware of the way they have to act towards the world. But behind that...they still have the genetics and the history. They might be outnumbered but that would be a minor difficulty to overcome in a straight up fight.
“You are living in 1898, imagining that if we do not grab some empire, that the Euros will. The correct interpretation of Washington is that everyone should know we will fight IF our actual interests were challenged. But that we would never engage in wars on behalf of European nations.
Europe is no friend of the USA. This includes the Brits. All of them have one goal and one goal only. Use the USA to be the muscle to achieve EU policy goals. This explains the Balkans, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, etc.”
Nailed it.Well said
After having seen Kaiser Wilhelm II express his desire for a “United States of Europe against America”, and the fact that Woodrow Wilson had to act in spite of his prior craven re-election slogan “He Kept Us Out Of War”, I can no longer see things any other way.
The leftist “American Committee on United Europe”, being themselves anti-American, certainly knew what kind of Frankestein monster they were reassembling after WWII.
Germany isn’t what they used to be. They would be well-trained, well-equipped and well-led but that doesn’t mean anything because they do not have the collective will to harm a fruit fly.
I’m not saying I want us to go to war, but if we were to go to war, I’d prefer we went to war against the French.
They have guns. They have bullets. They’re not a joke when they point their weapons toward US Forces and kill one American soldier.
Sounds like a good time to get the hell out of Europe, especially if you’re Jewish or a conservative.
Disband NATO and redeploy our troops to new digs on our southern border, maybe a handful in the likes of Poland. EU’s don’t want to pull their load anyway so there’s no point in US being burdened with it any longer. The EUpeons can defend their continent and foot the entire bill for doing so. More money for the Wall. MAGA!
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