Posted on 05/18/2020 8:32:01 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Exactly. And there was no case for self defense because these yahoos pursued an unarmed man who posed no threat to them. Also, Arbery’s past history has no bearing on the actions of the two men who killed him.
If I understand the charge correctly, that's not the way it works. It's a death ancillary/subordinate to the commission of a crime.
It really sucks when you have to prove thatyou are a jogger. Jogging shoes, shorts and a T-shirt are not evidence of being a jogger? Jogging is not evidence of being a jogger? Where was he carrying all the things he stole from his burglary? Why did they need guns to question him? Why did they need to shoot him 3 times if he was unarmed and never actually took a weapon from them? Why should he have to prove he was a jogger? Why is he a thug disguised as a jogger casing houses under construction as a rash of burglaries is terrorizing the neighborhood? Innocent until proven guilty.
Equal protection under the law. Pointing a gun at someone is assault. Pointing a gun at someone should be interpreted by that person as an assault. Everyone has a right to self-defense. Why is it that the white guys with guns get to claim self defense when they are assaulting an unarmed black man? Why does he have to prove he is a jogger when cars and trucks roll up and armed people jump out while a camera is filming? I would be shitting myself if that happened.
The shotgun was an auto-loader. Just keep pulling the trigger until the magazine is empty. Fires every time. With a bad grip on the stock you can accidentally bump-fire the weapon too.
Aubery was grappling for the shotgun right up to the moment where he turned to run away. McMichaels had his fingers on the trigger. Of course the weapon fired multiple times during the grappling. Not much deliberation required.
Disarming an antagonist who holds a weapon a low ready is a stupid move. That only works in the movies.
I have no doubt that police departments greatly appreciate neighborhood watch associations. Having an alert populace reporting crimes and suspicious activities helps them to do their jobs. But I don't know of a single police department that would want neighborhood watch associations do their job for them.
would add that most of my neighbors are armed when they patrol the neighborhood. And, frankly, I think they are quite nervous and, perhaps, a little scared about what they are doing.
Armed, nervous, and scared are a bad combination, and it is likely the reason why this incident went so badly wrong.
The crime being committed was assault with a deadly weapon. Pointing a gun at someone is assault. They pointed guns at him before he tried to wrestle a gun from them. Just because the men thought they were performing a citizens arrest doesn't give them the right to confront someone with firearms.
I'm surprised people are taking ANY sides this early, either siding with Al or taking the opposite.
It's just too early to know.
BTW, my neighborhood watch is suspicious of anyone regardless of his skin color. Joggers in my neighborhood who look suspicious (of all colors) are watched carefully.
I have talked to them and a deputy sheriff is a close friend. They are stretched to the limit and need all the help they can get.
Armed, nervous, and scared are a bad combination, and it is likely the reason why this incident went so badly wrong.
Completely agree.
I think you may be mistaken in that - Georgia Code. Under Georgia law murder requires malice, expressed or implied. Murder committed in the commission of another felony doesn't require malice.
Yes, it is not like he had just held up a 7-11 or committed a violent crime. All he seems to have done was snoop around a house under construction and maybe steal a hammer (I'm not sure if he actually stole the hammer). If the father/son team had actually managed to "citizen's arrest" him, I doubt he would even be charged with anything. I would not want it on my conscience that I had escalated a nothing-burger offense to a point where someone had to die.
I had not heard that. Did they identify make and model?
Disarming an antagonist who holds a weapon a low ready is a stupid move.
It's a desperate act, no doubt about that. One that I would think only someone in fear of their life would try to do.
I think (and this is a stretch) that the prosecutor has to prove that Travis McMichael was committing another felony during which Arbery was then killed.
This is something that we'll learn probably as the trial gets closer.
Why are there so many people on this thread repeating lies again and again? This is unusual for FR, and makes me think we have a lot of false flag posters here.
Your lies, in particular, are especially egregious.
The lives of the McMichaels were, in fact, in danger, as the career criminal Arbery was trying to wrest away a weapon so that he could shoot and kill them.
The McMichaels did call the police, despite lies told here.
The career criminal Arbery attacked them, not the other way around.
The career criminal Arbery turned this from an arrest and police investigation into a fatality by attacking the McMichaels with murder in his tiny little mind.
The career criminal Arbery could have proceeded past the McMichaels and gone about his business. They weren’t stopping him. Instead, he feloniously attacked.
People who are trying to misrepresent this as wrongdoing by the McMichaels are enemies of the Constitution, the American people, and all humanity, all of which are better off for the death of the career criminal Arbery.
We need more of this, not less. Instead of good Americans afraid to leave their homes lest they be attacked by criminals, criminals should be afraid to prowl the streets in search of victims.
It’s hard to say how many there might be, but I’d bet there are hundreds of thousands of career criminals who very dearly need to be shot and killed in the commission of crimes.
RE: The lives of the McMichaels were, in fact, in danger, as the career criminal Arbery was trying to wrest away a weapon so that he could shoot and kill them.
They were in a VEHICLE, how could Arbery have been wrestling their weapon if they were in a vehicle? Unless the son came down to confront Arbery? Was that confrontation necessary?
Why did they not call the police while tailing Arbery?
Please answer those.
Arbery being a career criminal? OK, did the McMichaels have access to his files?
They were not in a vehicle they were outside of it. They had called the police, in fact were on the phone with them while in pursuit. Police were very near at the time of the shooting, you can hear sirens fairly loudly. If you’re going to offer heartfelt opinions it might be wise to inform yourself of the known facts. There is video of all this, even with links posted to FR. Go find it.
It is always "too early to know" - until it is too late.
We are constantly faced with incomplete and inaccurate information, with which we must make critical and time-limited decisions.
Play the odds, place your bet, and put your money down. Waiting too long is a sure-fire loss.
Here is my call: "Aubery was a burglar who was casing a neighborhood for opportunities. He was confronted by angry neighbors and he ran. When blocked, he attacked one of the neighbors. who was armed with a shotgun. He died from weapons fire during the grappling. The death was a justified homicide.
Make of it what you will.
I think you are making assumptions that are different from my assumptions from what I saw in the video and from news reports I heard. News reports said that Arbery had three gunshot wounds, one to the hand and two to the chest, not that he was shot three times. The shotgun seemed to go off once during the struggle without hitting anyone. When the struggle began for the shotgun, the person taking the video turned away to get a picture of the hammer that Arbery dropped just before getting to the truck. As the camera view came back up you can see the smoke from the shotgun blast when the background was just the sky. When the video was back on the struggle, the barrel was pointed between the two men and they were still fighting for the shotgun. I assume that the shotgun was a semi auto, but will have to look at the video again. The elder McMichael (a retired police officer and investigator for the DA after retirement from PD) also had a gun that was concealed carry until he pulled it out to go help his son. It was a 357 magnum revolver. What I assume happened: The elder McMichael shoots Arbery and hits him in the chest. The shotgun goes off (several possible reasons that this could happen) hitting Arbery in one of the hands he is holding onto the barrel with and then hitting him in the chest. The video shows Arbery falling, but no more shots being fired. The elder McMichael saw Arbery enter the house under construction (burglarized so often cameras were installed inside) and called 911 before Arbery took off running. That is all the probable cause you would need in Georgia to make a citizens arrest and hold him for the police. If I was trying to stop someone I believed was a criminal, I would be armed too, if it was possible.
I’ve been very wary of wading into this but your assessment sounds about right to me.
The senior McMichaels was a former cop, who had previous encounters with Aubery. They probably recognized each other during that last encounter. So, yes in a manner of speaking, the McMichaels did have access to his files.
That’s probably as good a summary as any at this point.
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