Kensington Rune Stone

myself | 1-9-02 | myself

[Free Trapper]

Could the river have changed course even 40-60 miles years back?If so,the old riverbed would leave oxbows that tend to fill in and become marsh and eventually dry land.This can happen quickly under the right conditions.

[TexanToTheCore]

The Mica test along with other factors lead me to believe that this stone is a legitimate artifact and that is was found where it was planted by Norsemen. One of the questions that must be answered is why this stone was chiseled and left on the knoll.

The answer is in the last line of the inscription on the front. "AVM deliver us from this evil".

This stone is a prayer, made more important by its being carved in stone. This is a terrified man's plea for help and is a rare insight into the Norsemen as humans.

Did they make it back home? I suspect so. They probably left before the water went down and made it back to their ship on the coast by a different route, avoiding the indians (Ojibwa?).

And that, I think is the story. Someone who is serious needs to get out to the knoll and start digging to see if they can locate other artifacts, such as datable ashes. It is a shame that this artifact has been treated so cavalierly over the years, as it could lead to further nderstanding of the Norsemen in Vinland.
<>

[TexanToTheCore]

It is unlikely that the river could move 40 to sixty miles. A more likely scenario is that the Red River is so small that it could not drain a large area quickly and that wide area flooding occurred. I worked on a levee during the 93 floods and the amount of water that came down was astounding.

The reason that Iowa flooded was that a wet fall was followed by a heavy snowpack followed by an extremely wet spring. The amount of water that was left in Iowa fields simply could not drain fast enough. This also occurred near Prairie Du Chien, Wisconsin. Prairie flooding, I suspect, was far more common in those days, as our rivers had not been deepened and diked and our flat farm land had nt been criss crossed with drainage ditches. The Mississippi was less than half as deep as it is now. The channel is maintained at 9 feet and it is quite likely that the river average about 2 feet deep in those days.

[TexanToTheCore]

I noticed on the Topo map that the rivers flowing through the area meander quite a bit. This occurs when the gradient is slight and the flow is quite slow. Those oxbows could very well form and become marshes.

[Graewoulf]

Thanks for this post.

[crystalk]

Dozens of artifacts have already been found along the likely route in Minn including the firesite and firesteel along the Red at Climax, Minn, found now some 75 years ago.

Why don't you just look up Hjalmar Holand's book on abebooks.com, his main work is Westward from Vinland, and he also wrote a few others, bet you could get yourself a real classic for a few bucks.

[crystalk]

Are you in Galveston, TC? I once lived there for 3.5 years, had a good time and hated to leave.

[crystalk]

The Two Skerries 75 miles north, were identified by Holand as being the two rocky islets in Cormorant Lake, which is that far north of the stone's place of finding. Mooring stones, with the trademark triangular chiseled hole for boat mooring, were also found there.

This is the big Cormorant Lake just west of Detroit Lakes, Minn-- not the other Cormorant Lake in Grant County just a few miles NW of the stone...

[TexanToTheCore]

I will definitely look up that author, he sounds as if he knows what he is talking about. Thanks for the article, it has been fascinating and a good test of my knowledge of ancient maritime practices.

[okie01]

"Could the river have changed course even 40-60 miles years back?"

Unlikely. Since Kensington is almost due east of the source of the Red (or Bois de Sioux, at that point).

As you describe, on a flat landscape, rivers will wander all over their flood plain, constantly scouring and depositing, leaving oxbow lakes in their wake. But this close to the source, there would not have been sufficient flowage for such a phenomenon to occur.

[TexanToTheCore]

Houston. I love to go to Galveston. The Ocean cafe has Margeritas and carrot cake to kill for.

[Free Trapper]

I long believed the message to be a prayer or to leave word of impending death,much like the note found on the Russian submariner last year.This could also be the reason the stone was left in a nondescript spot.A quick memorial to your dead,then hotfoot it out of there.Thanks for the pointer to the book Crystalk.I find the letters being unknown until the 60's one of the most positive aspects to the stones authenticity.

[PaulKersey]

>Norwegian-surnamed Americans are (1.93%)...Swedes are higher still, some 2.25 to 2.5%.

>Norway has the same population as Jews in Israel, some 5.3 million, and the USA has the same number of Norwegian surnamed persons as is does Jews, some 5.6 million...

Interesting...

>Denmark would add another 0.3% and Iceland some 0.1%.

Thank you for those figures! My old figures had Norse and Danes at ~1% each and Swedes ~2%. Same 4% total Scandinavian population. What is the source of your numbers?

[Free Trapper]

(Rite of passage-something to brag about-hey Y'all,watch me).You can spot a Texan a mile off.HeeHee.I quess I can't say too much,I've lived and worked in Texas myself,one kid born there,and loved every bit of it.A great state.

[TexanToTheCore]

Yup...we're the last of the barbarians. Hehehehehe

I see you're a black powder man...me too. Love the history of it. And the BOOOOOOOM.

[Free Trapper]

Black powder is just for play for me.Trap,dive,hunt,and fish is what I do for a living and I have a way of keeping anything near me soaked nearly 24 hours a day.Blue steel is beautiful but now I'm spoiled with stainless.Maybe I'm wimpy but if a critter or group of critters is intent on doing me bodily harm I want more than one shot with wet powder.Worse than even a pack of hogs getting you down would be a pack of crazed peta-viles.Even normal people make me spooky and some I've run into on the rivers definitely did not have both oars in the water.

[okie01]

"Even normal people make me spooky and some I've run into on the rivers definitely did not have both oars in the water."

What rivers? Canoeists instinctively wanna know about rivers. Each has its own character and intrigue.

A favorite is Big Cypress Bayou in East Texas, from Lake of the Pines down into Caddo Lake. A four-day trip over beautiful water, through big trees draped with Spanish moss, lots of game and fish...and virtually no people.

[crystalk]

Just have picked them up over the years. I do not have URL or printed sources at my fingertips right now, you will notice I corrected Denmark up from the 0.3 to 0.5, a typo.

The total from the four countries in USA is still (2000 census) by surnames, some 4.9%, closer to 5 than 4...it was 6% in the 1960 census...

[TexanToTheCore]

There are many markers that would lead a Norseman to Vinland. One of the best would be westward swimming atlantic salmon. They spawn in rivers in Norway as well as Canada and any attempt to follow them would lead to Vinland.

[DensaMensa]

>Lugging it on a sled those last fifty miles would've been the hard part.

Compared to the difficulty of bringing back dressed game, the weight of the stone does not seem at all out of line, and I think is a non-issue.