Posted on 06/05/2004 8:16:13 PM PDT by xzins
Scripture teaches very explicitly that God acts according to a plan And, knowing that plan, he knows the future. “The counsel of Jehovah standetb fast forever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations” (Ps. 3.3:11). “I am Cod and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that arc not yet done” (isa. 46:9, 10) (Lorraine Boettner, Wycliffe Theological Dictionary, "Foreknowledge.")
The doctrine of predestination thus represents the purpose of God as absolute and unconditional, independent of the whole finite creation, and as originating solely in the eternal counsel of his will. He appoints the course of nature and directs the course of history down to the minutest details. His decrees therefore are eternal, unchangeable, holy, wise, and sovereign. They are represented as being the basis of the divine foreknowledge (q.v.) of all future events, and not conditioned by that knowledge or by anything originated by the events themselves. Objections against the doctrine of predestination bear with equal force against the foreknowledge of God, because what God foreknows must be as fixed and certain as that which is predestinated. When we say that we know what we will do, it is evident that we have already determined, and that our fore knowledge does not precede determination, but follows it and is based upon it. God foreknows the future because he has foreordained the future. (Boettner, Wycliffe, "Predestination.")
In any case, I am reading this as possibly saying (see highlighted areas) that God's omniscience is dependent upon God's omnipotence.
In other words, God is not independently (truly) omniscient; His omniscience would disappear if His omniscience did not exist.
His omniscience would disappear if His omniscience did not exist.
Change to: His omniscience would disappear if His omnipotence did not exist.
I've found His omniscience and Omnipotence to be both part of His essence. Neither may be lessened due to another facet of His essence, as He is also is never changing in His integrity.
However, theological arguments based upon the conceptual definitions of His essence might not be as well expressed. Accordingly a number of false arguments might arise when discussing these parts of His essence separate from Scripture.
If so, does that mean that God's omniscience is real, or derived, or redundant, or etc?
wow you guys think a lot. Can't wait to see what Alamogirl has to say here.
How do you respond to #4?
Me, too. I pinged Alamo on purpose. :>)
I believe that His omniscience and His omnipotence are two facets of the same Being. One is not dependent on the other.
***God foreknows the future because he has foreordained the future.***
Well, of course.
Genesis 15:13-14
Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.
Does the author say above that His omniscience is dependent on and simply a reflection of his omnipotence?
It's almost as if she(?) is saying the omniscience has no real existence.
see #10
BTW, I am watching Bruce Almighty as I type this. Remember out Bruce Almighty thread?
BRUCE ALMIGHTY: Atheism's Critique of Arminianism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1031277/posts
Lorraine Boettner is a HE.
Again you twist as you read.
===== REMEMBER THIS LINE: I just love it =====
Bruce Nolan: How do you make someone love you without changing free will?
God: Welcome to my world.
Yeah, I read it that way. Since she phrases it that way, she is denying His Omniscience.
see the "?" after the "she" in post #10.
It's the girl named "Sue" syndrome. Wonder why his dad gave him a girl's name?
In any case, I don't get the twist part. I asked questions based on the sentences. Explain.
"In other words, he is telling me that God planned and caused every sin that every man has or will commit." -connectthedots on 5/31/04
You guys have run into trouble, recently, when saying "In other words...".
Don't you think that it might be time for you guys to try something different.
Jean
That's how I took it and why I posted it.
Is foreknowledge OF NECESSITY a byproduct of power?
Is prediction possible based on other things?
Pardon me if I hit the hay. Preaching tomorrow, Moses Series Part 2 of 18.
#1 A Sovereign God amid a Sorry Situation
#2 Moses Retreats to DTS (Desert Theological Seminary)
Next week:
Here Am I, Lord. Suh-suh-send Aaron!
????
What a contribution.
"Us guys?"
"Run into trouble?"
"Something different?"
I guess it's simply not possible that I was reading the above and had these questions come up based on the sentences that Boettner wrote?
After seeing you "come up with" a lot of things in the past few years from passages you've supposedly read -I guess anyting is possible.
Jean
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