Posted on 09/22/2013 6:08:10 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I told you the modern Bibles (including the NKJ) read differently.
2. You think that the ESV and NIV are saying the same thing as the KJB, AKJV and Geneva?
The ESV and NIV is saying that all who came out of Egypt rebelled.
The KJB, AKJB and Geneva are saying that not all who came out of Egypt rebelled (i.e. Jacob and Caleb)
You really need some reading lessons.
Why the personal insult? Whose purpose does that serve?
Did you reread Hebrews Chapter 3 - 5? Did you pay specific attention to Hebrews 3:9 where ALL the versions talk about the entire generation? Do you realize that the Greek words from all translations are the same? The word “howbeit” seems to be what is throwing you off as well as the placement of the negative. And if you read Hebrews 3:17 in the other versions, it makes it clear that the ones whom God was provoked with - those whose bodies fell in the wilderness.
So, in essence, all these versions say the same things translated from the same Greek words. If you look up all the Greek words, you will find that the ESV and NIV versions say it in a much clearer way. The KJV, etc say the same thing, but in a very awkward way because of how they use the word, “howbeit” and how they translate the Greek word, “tis” as “some” where the others translate is as “who were those”. The KJV actually uses about 42 different words or phrases to translate that one Greek word! 42!!!!
Oh my! You’ve wandered off the path of our discussion and become lost in the thickets of your theology.
If you find your way out long enough we can continue with the subject at the beginning. Til then...have a nice day.
RE: Oh my! You’ve wandered off the path of our discussion and become lost in the thickets of your theology.
How so? You were referring to Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. I just told you what they all believe in regards to Jesus Christ’s diety (To sum it up — THEY ALL BELIEVE EXACTLY THE SAME WAY — He is both truly God AND truly man ).
RE: If you find your way out long enough we can continue with the subject at the beginning. Til then...have a nice day.
The subject (if you want to be reminded) is this : Is the New World Translation an accurate translation of the Original Greek New Testament. I believe I gave you reasons why the answer is ‘No’.
Yes, in this case, all of the words in the Greek are the same, but the modern versions translated it differently then the Geneva and KJB (who have it correct)
No, the KJB is correctly pointing out that 'not all who came out of Egypt rebelled' while the modern versions are saying that they did, in contradiction to their own OT, in Deut. 1:35-39.
So, the modern versions are saying that ALL who came out of Egypt rebelled, the KJB is saying some didn't, as per Deut.1:35-39)
So, it is not 'clearer' it is a contradiction and an historical error in the modern versions.
All Bible translations use different English words to translate Greek and Hebrew words based on context and style.
So, again, you are not reading the verses correctly.
They say two different things, only one can be right and based on the OT, it is the KJB, not the NIV.
New International Version (NIV) 16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
You think those two verses are saying the same thing?
They are saying the opposite things!
Howebeit means 'nevertheless, not withstanding'
Two men of that generation of those men 20 and over were the exception to rebelling, that was Caleb and Joshua, and the KJB correctly states that, the NIV, ESV, NKJ,NASB etc do not and are therefore in error.
They are not saying the same thing!
And I gave you the explanations as to why you are in error here. So thank you but you can’t make your point by assertion or these extraneous arguments.
If you’re unwilling to do otherwise....well I’ve better things to do.
RE: And I gave you the explanations as to why you are in error here.
And I gave you explanation as to why your explanation as erroneous. The first one being INCONSISTENCY in translation.
I don’t think the other arguments are extraneous. They are RELEVANT to this passage.
Argument by assertion doesn’t work here.....and if that’s what you’re going continue to do I’ll not respond further.
RE: Argument by assertion doesn’t work here.....and if that’s what you’re going continue to do I’ll not respond further.
Excuse me? How does pointing out the inconsistency in translating the word ‘Theos’ amount to argument by assertion?
And how about your argument? Aren’t you similarly asserting something you cannot prove from the Greek?
More than 3 versions can be opened side-by-side. I just opened 5 side-by-side for Matthew, verse 11:11 singularly, and for the entire chapter 11 also.
5 did seem to be the limit though, in side-by-side mode. The little "add parallel translation" button would disappear once the 5th parallel was added.
It can be a little difficult to choose which additional translation one desires once 3 or more are opened, since the scroll bar on the version identification box opening in drop-down menu disappears off the browser screen -- but the menu is still "scrollable" by highlighting the version which is lowest visible (WITHOUT clicking on a version) and using the mouse's scroll wheel, or by faking it by moving the mouse back and forth as in copying text larger than a combox opening, but accessible by scrolling in that manner.
There is also a feature when selecting single verses which says "...show all English translations", which results in top to bottom orientation of all the English translations they have http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew%2011:11 but not all in existence. As example; left out is NAB which can be found here --->http://old.usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml#acts.
NAB is not to be confused with NASB. The former is copyrighted, the latter is also, but has been made available to biblegateway for permitted or allowed use there. I get the impression that in regards to many copyrighted translations, copyright holders and publishers worry little about someone stealing the work from online source -- and printing it out. Others, for whatever reasons, want people to come to them...
Amen and amen, double dittoes, etc. Spiritual things are only spiritually understood. I Corin. 2:14 (really all of ch. 2).
The carnal (natural) mind cannot understand the things of the spirit, and much error and many problems are the result of the natural mind attempting to understand and explain that which only comes by the Holy Spirit.
And, the necessity for spiritual revelation from God is throughout the NT and Paul’s teachings.....only if God opens our eyes can we see....and only if we know we are blind in and of ourselves, crying out in our hearts for “a spirit of wisdom and revelation in THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM” can we truly see....this was Paul’s prayer for the Ephesians....
Ok. I am not surprised at your answer.
Heb.3:16 is incorrectly translated in all the major modern versions, those translatons are saying all who left Egypt rebelled, when they did not.
Sigh....context, context, context... sigh
Either all who came out of Egypt rebelled or they didn't.
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