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I’m a Presbyterian Minister Who Doesn’t Believe in God
Patheos ^ | March 17, 2015 | John Shuck

Posted on 03/21/2015 7:33:01 PM PDT by hiho hiho

“How can you call yourself a Christian, let alone a minister?!”

I get asked that question frequently and the questioner is hostile more often than not. Still, I like to answer it if I believe the questioner is sincere.

Though I self-identify as a Christian and I am an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), I raised eyebrows a few years ago when I posted an article on my website about how my personal beliefs don’t align with those of most Presbyterians.

For example, I believe that:

- Religion is a human construct

- The symbols of faith are products of human cultural evolution

- Jesus may have been an historical figure, but most of what we know about him is in the form of legend

- God is a symbol of myth-making and not credible as a supernatural being or force

- The Bible is a human product as opposed to special revelation from a divine being

- Human consciousness is the result of natural selection, so there’s no afterlife

In short, I regard the symbols of Christianity from a non-supernatural point of view.

And yet, even though I hold those beliefs, I am still a proud minister. But I don’t appreciate being told that I’m not truly a Christian.

Why is that so many people think my affirmations are antithetical to Christianity? I think it is because Christianity has placed all of its eggs in the belief basket. We all have been trained to think that Christianity is about believing things. Its symbols and artifacts (God, Bible, Jesus, Heaven, etc) must be accepted in a certain way. And when times change and these beliefs are no longer credible, the choices we are left with are either rejection or fundamentalism.

I think of Christianity as a culture. It has produced 2,000 years of artifacts: literature, music, art, ethics, architecture, and (yes) beliefs. But cultures evolve and Christianity will have to adapt in order to survive in the modern era.

Many of those paths will be dead ends. As Daniel Dennett once said, the dinosaurs really have not died out because modern birds carry on many of their traits. Similarly, as religions evolve, they may look similar in some respects and quite different in others. You may not even call some of them religions anymore, depending on how you define the word.

I believe one of the newer religious paths could be a “belief-less” Christianity. In this “sect,” one is not required to believe things. One learns and draws upon practices and products of our cultural tradition to create meaning in the present. The last two congregations I have served have huge commitments to equality for LGTBQ people and eco-justice, among other things. They draw from the well of our Christian cultural tradition (and other religious traditions) for encouragement in these efforts. I think a belief-less Christianity can be a positive good for society.

Belief-less Christianity is thriving right now, even as other forms of the faith are falling away rapidly. Many liberal or progressive Christians have already let go or de-emphasized belief in Heaven, that the Bible is literally true, that Jesus is supernatural, and that Christianity is the only way. Yet they still practice what they call Christianity. Instead of traditional beliefs, they emphasize social justice, personal integrity and resilience, and building community. The cultural artifacts serve as resources.

But what about belief in God? Can a belief-less Christianity really survive if God isn’t in the picture? Can you even call that Christianity anymore? In theory, yes. In practice, it is a challenge because “belief in God” seems to be so intractable. However, once people start questioning it and realize that they’re not alone, it becomes much more commonplace.

Since posting my article — and in response to my ministry in general — many have opened up to me that they didn’t believe in God but they liked coming to my church. One young woman, after going through my confirmation class, joined the church. She read her faith statement in front of the congregation. It was a powerful articulation of her social justice commitments in which she added that she didn’t believe in God. The congregation enthusiastically welcomed her, of course.

Personally, even though I don’t believe in God as a supernatural agent or force, many still do. I utilize the symbol “God” in worship. This may be viewed as cheating but since our cultural tradition is filled with images of God, it is near impossible to avoid. As a symbol, I’m not yet ready to let go of God. It is a product of myth-making — I know that — but the symbol incorporates many of our human aspirations. I find that “God” for me is shorthand for all the things for which I long: beauty, truth, healing, and justice. They’re all expressed by this symbol and the stories about it.

Someone quipped that my congregation is BYOG: Bring Your Own God. I use that and invite people to “bring their own God” — or none at all. While the symbol “God” is part of our cultural tradition, you can take it or leave it or redefine it to your liking. That permission to be theological do-it-yourselfers is at the heart of belief-less Christianity.

I understand some Christians may react with hostility and panic to this idea — they already have — but it deserves an honest discussion.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: antichrist; antitheism; atheism; belieflesschristian; christianity; communistgoals; cultureofcorruption; deceiver; ecojustice; godgap; grievouswolves; heretic; homofascism; homosexualagenda; howtostealanelection; johnschuck; lavendermafia; leadtheflockastray; liberalism; pcusa; presbyterianchurch; presbyterianism; religiousleft; revisionisthistory; samesexmarriage; shuckandjive; thenogodgod; theology; waronchristianity; waronmarriage; waronreligion
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To: hiho hiho

>>Though I self-identify as a Christian and I am an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.),

Get out of that snake pit. There are plenty of real Reformed Presbyterian denominations to join if you still believe the bible.


21 posted on 03/21/2015 7:48:44 PM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: hiho hiho

“...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment...” Hebews 9:27. You will soon see the reality of God.


22 posted on 03/21/2015 7:49:40 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: PROCON
I did some work in an Universal Unitarian "church" years ago.

Many years ago, my polling place was at one of these. The posters on exhibit and the promotions going on at that church spooked me. Well, in the sense that I was glad to vote and leave.
23 posted on 03/21/2015 7:50:07 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: hiho hiho
The guy is a grifter -- making a living off things he thinks are false and which others believe are true. He smiles and takes the money.

you may be sure that your sin will find you out.
Numbers 32:23

24 posted on 03/21/2015 7:51:32 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Victim" -- often people rush to take on the label because of the many advantages that come with it.)
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To: hiho hiho
I'm impressed, and you might enjoy looking at the book that is available via. my tagline.

The book's title is "Darwin's Ghost." It's a respectable modern update of every chapter in Darwin's "Origin of the Species."

25 posted on 03/21/2015 7:52:00 PM PDT by OldNavyVet (http://sunsetridgemsbiology.wikispaces.com/file/view/Darwins+Ghost.pdf)
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To: hiho hiho

You earned it “pastor”...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIoMfVNVx4g


26 posted on 03/21/2015 7:52:19 PM PDT by guido911 (Islamic terrorists are members http://www.freerepublic.com/foof the "ROP", the "religion of pu*&ies")
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To: hiho hiho

those more than 500 men who SAW Jesus after he had returned form the DEAD...is recorded in HISTORICAL LITERATURE!!

what is this unctuous bumpkin reading??


27 posted on 03/21/2015 7:54:28 PM PDT by MeshugeMikey ("Never, Never, Never, Give Up," Winston Churchill ><>)
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To: hiho hiho

He can call himself whatever he wants.

The Lord knows who is His.

The rest He will spew out of His mouth.


28 posted on 03/21/2015 7:54:45 PM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: Artcore

I was an Elder in the PCUSA. Left in 92 when our Pastor (Dallas Theology Seminary) retired. He was a very good man who refused to tow the PCUSA PC line. About 1/2 of the congregation left at the same time. We all went to a PCA church across town.


29 posted on 03/21/2015 7:55:10 PM PDT by wjcsux ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

huh?


30 posted on 03/21/2015 7:56:21 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: hiho hiho

Sort of like having a President who hates his own country. Well he hates this country. I guess he doesn’t hate Kenya.


31 posted on 03/21/2015 8:00:19 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8:38-39, For I am persuaded.)
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To: hlmencken3

Now just what is that supposed to mean?


32 posted on 03/21/2015 8:01:49 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: hiho hiho

Sodomite church.


33 posted on 03/21/2015 8:01:54 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: hiho hiho
C.S. Lewis put it quite well. I will paraphrase below.

Either you believe that Christ was who he said he was--or you have to believe that he was a demon or perhaps a raving lunatic. There is no middle ground. Let's cut the crap about Christ being "just a great teacher."

34 posted on 03/21/2015 8:02:11 PM PDT by Lysandru
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To: hiho hiho

My tag line fits this article perfectly.
How some folks can have all the advantages of living in a Christian land, being raised in a Christian family, and ... with this one...receiving a Christian seminary eduction...
and ... how they can come to an essentially athiestic world view.... boggles the mind.
I guess you can lead an ass to water, but...


35 posted on 03/21/2015 8:04:01 PM PDT by faithhopecharity (Foolish people ... have eyes and see not)
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To: hiho hiho
He and his church have been busy pushing for marriage equality. john shuck

The "church" has a nice welcoming rainbow prominently affixed to the cross on the outside of the church. see here
36 posted on 03/21/2015 8:05:41 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: hiho hiho
I am an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)

PCUSA, the church where anything goes. I'm sure they'll soon have a special ministry for those 'christians' who have loving and monogamous relationships with goats.

37 posted on 03/21/2015 8:06:07 PM PDT by tbpiper
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: hiho hiho

sounds all to familiar. Here is youtube clip that explains how “religious self identification” works: https://youtu.be/JbKLkg-5sGY


39 posted on 03/21/2015 8:07:54 PM PDT by zadox (Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them. Reagan)
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To: hiho hiho

Yeah, but what’s the point of it?


40 posted on 03/21/2015 8:13:02 PM PDT by chesley (Obama -- Muslim or dhimmi? And does it matter?)
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