On the Worthy Reception of Holy Communion, Part One

OK, first off, you are depending heavily on a passage of Scripture that is of uncertain authenticity.

There is a lot of debate as to whether that part of Mark 16 was even in the original as the earliest manuscripts do not contain it and the writing style is different, leading to the conclusion that they were added on later.

But just as with ANY who use that passage, including the pentecostals and word of faith people, they pick what they want and ignore or outright deny the rest.

In the case of Catholicism, they depend heavily on that passage for support of baptism being required for salvation, yet as ealgeone pointed out, Jesus said that whoever does not BELIEVE is not saved.

Also, since y’all accpet that passage about baptism, what about the rest of the verse?

Where is Catholicism demanding that all believers speak in tongues? That they can snake handle or eat poison and be OK? What about healing the sick and casting out demons? I don’t see Catholicism insisting on those signs also following salvation of the believer and I certainly do not and never have seen any Catholic practice such things.

The pentecostals err in the opposite way. They ignore the part about baptism and focus instead on the signs as though that should be the normal Christian experience.

You can also say that you believe, but be in mortal sin at the time of your death.

But sin is not counted against the believer so it doesn't matter if every specific sin is confessed at or by the time of death.

Romans 4:3-8 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

You can also say that you believe, but be in mortal sin at the time of your death.

I know it's been beat into your head there are mortal sins....however, the NT is clear....all sin is mortal. The little lies you tell...the things you do everyday you don't even realize you've done...just one of those, apart from faith in Christ, is enough to separate you from God.

Recommend you read Colossians 2....pay special attention to vv13-14.

Read Ephesians 1 with special attention to vv13-14.

Once the believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they are not unsealed....ever. There is nothing in the NT to indicate otherwise.

Based on conversations with other Roman Catholics, and ya'll are all over the board on this issue it seems, one does not have to be baptized.

Example....if a person is about to die and professes faith in Christ, some of your fellow RCs say that person is saved through what RCs call a "baptism of desire"....even though that is not a NT teaching.

So water baptism is not what saves you based on that.

What this comes down to is faith.

Do you believe John 5:24?

Jesus told Nicodemus that whosoever believed in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. He didn't put any qualifiers on that to Nicodemus.

Either Jesus told him the truth...or told him a lie.

I going with the former...He told him the truth.

We come to Christ through belief in Him.

Just admit that you are wrong. So you know better than the God inspired Bible what are incorrect passages. Jesus told the Apostles Go forth Preach and Baptize.

Catholics have the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles in the oral tradition.

Just because you left the Catholic Church doesn’t make you more authoritative than the 2000 years of tradition that the Holy Spirit protects from error.

Don’t misrepresent that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach the importance of Faith in God and keeping His commandments.

Yes priests still exorcise the demons and devil from individuals. I know a priest (now a Bishop) that from the pulpit (a English speaker) spoke in Spanish to a Spanish audience and made an error in pronunciation that was brought to his attention. The next week the Holy Spirit gave him the ability to clearly speak and understand Spanish. Yes God still works miracles including Eucharistic miracles.

It seems to me that many preach that little faith is the same as a true faith in God. That implies that having a little faith allows one to ignore the teachings of Jesus that they don’t agree with.

If you do not believe in Baptism and that it forgives sins and it is necessary for salvation, then you may want to determine the effect on your soul.

May you truly understand the Truth and live it.

Catholics have the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles in the oral tradition.

However, Rome does not have those oral teachings. Rome cannot definitively say, "xyz was said by Paul."

If Rome believes the ECFs are in 100% agreement on the issues they are deceiving themselves as these are not in agreement on the issues near and dear to Rome as has been demonstrated on these threads.

Rome claims these teachings don't contradict Scripture yet that is not the case....in many instances they do.

The Immaculate Conception is not even supported in Scripture per the Catholic Encyclopedia Online.

If Rome truly believed the ECFs writings were inspired they would have incorporated them in their canon at Trent. That Rome did not is telling.

It is also telling the early church did not consider these texts to be inspired and did not include them in the canon.

Rome has done what the Mormons have done....they've added to Scripture.

1 Corinthians 1:11-17 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

So if baptism were required for salvation, then why would Christ send Paul to preach the gospel and NOT baptize?

If baptism were required for salvation that would mean that the finished work of Christ on the cross was not enough to save people.

Anything you add to the cross in order to be saved is what you are trusting in.

If baptism were enough to save someone, Christ died for nothing. All we'd have to do then is be baptized and Jesus did not need to suffer.

Claiming that ANYTHING besides the cross ensures salvation makes a mockery of the suffering and death of Jesus. It makes all He endured meaningless and useless.

Circumcision was fulfilled and taken up into Baptism as the way to be initiated into God's community, and Passover was fulfilled and taken up into Easter (Pascha) as the celebration of our liberation from slavery, sin and death.

And Paul CLEARLY says that circumcision is no longer required because ht at is law keeping.

Therefore, what some people have done is replaced circumcision with baptism and set up their own Law and law keeping requirements.

If the Law that God Himself gave from Mt. Sinai wasn't good enough to save anyone, then any new law anyone else sets up is certainly not going to.

Tell me, why did God give the Law? Do you know?

Metmom, your interpretation of what I wrote is profoundly off-target. We are not being graded by the number of requirements met. Yikes!! (Excuse me, but I'm blindsided that a person could even think such a thing.)

I did NOT say that "A total of 15 things are needed to be saved," as if this were a test requiring a numerical passing score. What I did say, which is quite verifiable and unobjectionable, is (exact quote) "How Scripture proclaims we are saved".

Every one of those citations of Scripture answers the question, sometime explicit in the text, "Lord, what must I do to be saved?" - "Lord, what must I do to gain eternal life?" - or even the straight assertion, "The Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these."

All of the items listed in that post are parts of ONE THING, which is how Christ saves us through faith.

Whatever I say,myself, is sure to fall short. But I think the Scriptures themselves are pretty clear. And I could have doubled the number of verses: the Scriptures on "how we are saved" are just so rich. Altogether, they make for beautiful reading, and much reason to glorify Christ our Savior and our God.

Examining Scriptures, How Scripture proclaims we are saved:

By believing in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating His flesh and drinking His blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By His blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By compassion toward the needy (John 10:25-37; Matthew 25:31-46)

By enduring to the end (Matt.24:13)

Of COURSE Peter was talking about “water” baptism (which pretty much everyone just calls baptism...) if you read the whole verse:

“18 For Christ also suffered[b] once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which[c] he went and proclaimed[d] to the spirits in prison, 20 because[e] they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.”

1. Peter compares baptism to Noah’s flood. I mean, he literally says that baptism corresponds to the water of the flood. So of course there’s water.
2. If there was no water involved, why would Peter feel it necessary to mention that the removal of dirt isn’t what saves you?

And well since “water” baptism is the ONLY Christian baptism there is (since the death of John the Baptist, anyway), the idea of separating the two is more than kind of ridiculous. Because... you can’t.

And well, Communion does forgive your sins (because Jesus said it did), so yeah, in that way, it does save you.

And actually - faith doesn’t save, at least, not directly. Jesus by his grace through his death and resurrection saves you, and this salvation is given to you through faith.

You can’t pit faith against baptism and communion. They’re all one in the same.

And I’m not Catholic.

There is a related, but separate question, whether one must receive Holy Communion ("eat and drink the Body and Blood of the Lord") in order to have eternal life.

Examining Scriptures, How Scripture proclaims we are saved:

(15 ways listed)

So the question remains, if you don't take communion as Catholicism says must happen, then are you saved?

What about if you do all the rest but communion?

What if you do communion and not the rest?

Do you get to pick and choose which ones you want to do or do you have to do them all?

“Scripture references for such claims are?”

Washes away your sins:
Ezekiel 36:25-33
Acts 2:38

Bestows upon us the Holy Spirit:
John 3:5
Acts 2:38

Grants us new life in Christ:
Romans 6:2-6
Colossians 2:12
Galatians 3:27
Titus 3:5
1 Peter 3:21

Absorbs us into the Mystical Body of Christ, the Church:
Matthew 28:19
Ephesians 5:25-26
Probably could include the four from the proceeding section in here too (since if you’re given new life in Christ, you’re part of the Mystical Body fo Christ, the Church)

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