Posted on 04/23/2018 7:28:38 AM PDT by Salvation
I agree.
Search again. Not doing your homework for you.
It’s nothing to do with mutual respect. The entire Mass is not supported by the New Testament. Why participate in something that isn’t Scriptural?
You should read about St. Catherine of Siena.
However, you are equally obliged to decline to participate in the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic Church, whether your reason is that you respect us or that you do not respect us.
Christ is not brought back down from Heaven by the priest to be sacrificed over and over and over and over again. We do not consume Christ as previously noted..
However, you are equally obliged to decline to participate in the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic Church, whether your reason is that you respect us or that you do not respect us.
I do not participate because it is not Scriptural.
Believe what you want, but do not misrepresent what Catholics believe.
You're fine when you tell me what you believe.
Do NOT misrepresent to me what I believe.
That does not show respect.
Did you have a particular passage or incident in mind about wolves?
Did you have a particular passage or incident in mind about wolves?
Believe what you want, but do not misrepresent what Catholics believe.
A Roman Catholic priest says otherwise.
Plus another Roman Catholic on another thread said the Mass was the SAME sacrifice as the Cross....the SAME.
Do NOT misrepresent to me what I believe.
All I'm doing is repeating what an ordained Roman Catholic priest has said. If anyone should know it should be him. Your issue is with him....not me.
I'll post what we're talking about for the casual reader to decide.
When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man. It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command.
John O' Brien, Roman Catholic Priest in the Faith of Millions.
Literary Devices
https://literarydevices.net/metaphor/
Metaphor
Definition of Metaphor
Metaphor is a figure of speech that makes an implicit, implied, or hidden comparison between two things that are unrelated, but which share some common characteristics. In other words, a resemblance of two contradictory or different objects is made based on a single or some common characteristics.
In simple English, when you portray a person, place, thing, or an action as being something else, even though it is not actually that “something else,” you are speaking metaphorically. For example, the phrase, “My brother is the black sheep of the family,” is a metaphor because he is not a sheep, nor is he black. However, we can use this comparison to describe an association of a black sheep with that person. A black sheep is an unusual animal, which typically stays away from the herd, and the person being described shares similar characteristics.
Furthermore, a metaphor develops a comparison that is different from a simile, in that we do not use “like” or “as” to develop a comparison in a metaphor. It actually makes an implicit or hidden comparison and not an explicit one.
Common Speech Examples of Metaphors
Most of us think of a metaphor as a device used in songs or poems only, and that it has nothing to do with our everyday life. In fact, all of us in our routine life speak, write, and think in metaphors. We cannot avoid them. Metaphors are sometimes constructed through our common language, and they are called “conventional metaphors.”
For instance, calling a person a “night owl,” or an “early bird,” or saying “life is a journey,” are common examples of metaphors heard and understood by most of us. Below are some more conventional metaphors we often hear in our daily lives:
My brother was boiling mad. (This implies he was too angry.)
The assignment was a breeze. (This implies that the assignment was not difficult.)
It is going to be clear skies from now on. (This implies that clear skies are not a threat and life is going to be without hardships)
The skies of his future began to darken. (Darkness is a threat; therefore, this implies that the coming times are going to be hard for him.)
Her voice is music to his ears. (This implies that her voice makes him feel happy)
He saw the soul of dust when passing through the dust storm.
Chaos is the breeding ground of order.
War is the mother of all battles.
Her dance is a great poem.
A new road to freedom passes through this valley of death.
My conscience is my barometer.
His white face shows his concern.
His kisses are like roses.
He married her to have a trophy wife.
Laughter is the best medicine.
Words are daggers when spoken in anger.
His words are pearls of wisdom.
Comprehension problem.
As a matter of fact, Yes. It is the SAME. The same ONE. Unique. Solo. SINGULAR. Unparalleled. Never repeated. Counting number One. UNO.
Christ is sacrificed once. In a bloody way, at Calvary. In a mystical way, beyond time and space. "The Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world." (Revelation).
In the Mass, we enter into this eternity. It is a meeting of time and eternity, of space and infinity. Hence the Mass, the sacrifice of the Lamb ("This is the Lamb of God") is the self-same ONE sacrifice of Calvary.
It would be only honest to say that this goes beyond your comprehension. It cannot, in fact, be grasped by the unaided human intellect.
But it is not right to simply misrepresent it by saying Christ is sacrificed multiple times (over and over and over again.)
It's not true. It's not what the Catholic Church teaches.
So kindly cease misrepresenting our doctrine.
If you really don't "get it," the reasonable thing would be to say so, and stop right there.
That sounds like many times, not one continual sacrifice to me.
“That sounds like many times, not one continual sacrifice to me.”
Again, you are unable to comprehend the Eternal Triune God and His ability to Transcend Time.
Jesus died IN time, once for all. It’s over and done with.
He is not in heaven continually being killed for our sins.
He is in heaven as the resurrected and risen Lord seated at the right hand of the Father making intercession for His people.
Comprehension problem.
Your issue is with your fellow Roman Catholic.
But it is not right to simply misrepresent it by saying Christ is sacrificed multiple times (over and over and over again.) It's not true. It's not what the Catholic Church teaches. So kindly cease misrepresenting our doctrine.
Forgive my frustration here...but...an ordained Roman Catholic priest said this.......not me.
Who is going to be better trained to understand what is happening....the ordained/trained Roman Catholic priest...or you...a layperson [no disrespect intended]??
the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man—not once but a thousand times!
I know you don't like the quote....most Roman Catholics don't when confronted with the reality of what is happening during the Mass....not what you think is happening....but what is happening {at least from a RC perspective} based on what an ordained priest says.
As metmom has noted....if there is no shedding of blood there is no sacrifice. As Rome claims there is no shedding of blood at the Mass, then it is not a sacrifice. Can't have it both ways.
And more than that when you consider how many times the Mass is performed in Roman Catholicism.
The Cross was a one time sacrifice not to be repeated again. It doesn't have to.
Again, you remain clueless. It is never repeated. His sacrifice exists always.
This does not accord with the reaction of Jesus' hearers at the time, nor with the understanding and practice of the Church everywhere --- Europe, Asia, Africa ---until the Northwest European breakup in the 16th century.
Did any Christian believe the Mass was in contradiction to the NT until the 16th or 17th century? Might you let me know?
At the time of the initial Bread of Life Discourse (John 6), the crowds are disturbed at Jesus' words, interpret them as real and shocking. "This saying is hard, who can accept it?"
Jesus notes this, and does he finesse it in a literary genre kind of way?
No, He doubles down. "I tell you, my Flesh is real food and by Blood real drink." (Literary device, eh?) He even switches verbs, so the verb He uses goes from just "eat" (phago) to the way an animal eats meat (trogo). The word trogo means “to gnaw, to chew,” and it is used nowhere else in the New Testament, except in John 6:54, and 56-58.
Note: Jesus doesn't chase after them and say, "Wait! Stop! It's just a metaphor, you simpletons!"
No, he's all about "real" food and "real" drink and "Amen, amen, I say unto you." Then He turns to His closest disciples and says, "Do you want to go, too?"
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