Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

[Catholic Caucus] Death Penalty Debacle: Our Lady of Fatima called it
aka Catholic ^ | August 2, 2018 | Louie Verrecchio

Posted on 08/02/2018 8:18:12 PM PDT by ebb tide

Catholics against death penaltyThe big news of the day in Catholic (and other) circles concerns the announcement that Francis has issued a rescript to the CDF changing the neo-church teaching on the death penalty as stated in the so-called Catechism of the Catholic Church. (CCC)

In short, CCC 2267 most recently reflected the wishes of John Paul II to say that cases of the death penalty as an absolute necessity for effectively preventing crime are “very rare, if not practically non-existent;” the quote coming from his Encyclical, Evangelium Vitae.

This treatment left the door cracked ever-so-slightly for the just use of capital punishment; in fact, Cardinal Ratzinger as Prefect of the CDF subsequently affirmed as much.

One of the major flaws in this treatment, however, was that it focused exclusively on the death penalty as a means of protecting society; without any regard for its use as a form of punishment – more on that momentarily.

Now, thanks to Francis, CCC 2267 will henceforth feature a quote from his own most highly favored source of inspiration, himself, stating:

Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”, and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

The CDF explained the reasons for the change in a Letter to Bishops; one that makes perfectly clear that the Conciliar Captains of Newchurch have totally abandoned the idea that capital punishment is a legitimate exercise of civil authority in applying retributive justice.

At this, let’s take an abbreviated look at the Church’s traditional doctrine on Capital Punishment as stated in the Roman Catechism (aka Catechism of the Council of Trent).

In its treatment of the Fifth Commandment, the Roman Catechism states under the heading of “Exceptions” the following:

Execution Of Criminals

Another kind of lawful slaying belongs to the civil authorities, to whom is entrusted power of life and death, by the legal and judicious exercise of which they punish the guilty and protect the innocent. The just use of this power, far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this Commandment which prohibits murder. The end of the Commandment­ is the preservation and security of human life. Now the punishments inflicted by the civil authority, which is the legitimate avenger of crime, naturally tend to this end, since they give security to life by repressing outrage and violence. Hence these words of David: In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land, that I might cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord. [Emphasis added]

One notes that the traditional teaching on the just use of the death penalty, unlike that of post-conciliar churchmen, recognizes the State’s duty to not only protect the innocent, but also to punish the guilty; it nowhere suggests that the State is always and everywhere duty bound to protect the life of the guilty.

NB: The Roman Catechism also speaks of the death penalty as that which tends toward “the preservation and security of human life.”

How can this be?

Simply put, the security of human life is not limited to man’s natural ends; a point lost on conciliar churchmen like neo-conservative superstar Archbishop Charles Chaput, who in a 2012 article in his diocesan newspaper equated the death penalty to “answering violence with violence.”

Completely absent from the minds of such men is the reality that proportionate punishment justly rendered (as in the case of a death penalty leveled against those who murder the innocent) can have a purifying effect on the soul of the perpetrator as expiation is made; thereby rendering a service to the spiritual good and supernatural life of both the guilty individual and society as a whole.

St. Thomas Aquinas affirmed that the death penalty can serve as a powerful impetus for the criminal’s conversion, and that it also carries the potential for having a purgatorial effect on the guilty party if the punishment is accepted with contrition. As such, the death penalty can hardly be dismissed as devoid of mercy, much less justice.

Consider as well the following citations of the traditional doctrine:

The secular power can without mortal sin carry out a sentence of death, provided it proceeds in imposing the penalty not from hatred but with judgment, not carelessly, but with due solicitude. (Pope Innocent III, DS 795/425)

Even in the case of the death penalty the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. Rather public authority limits itself to depriving the offender of the good of life in expiation for his guilt, after he, through his crime, deprived himself of his own right to life. (Pope Pius XII, Address given September 14, 1952)

The post-conciliar approach to the death penalty – epitomized in the Bergoglian treatment – is born of two errors; a hyper-inflated view of human dignity, and a distorted view of the State.

Let’s begin with a closer look at the latter.

From the time of Vatican Council II and the promulgation of Dignitatis Humanae, the Church has refrained from preaching the immutable truth that the civil authorities in the various States derive their authority neither from constitutions nor the will of the people, but from Almighty God (more properly, Christ the King) to Whom they are beholden.

Lost in the process is the traditional Catholic understanding of the civil authority as a representative of God.

As such, it is no longer clear in the minds of moderns that the State has the right to visit the death penalty upon the guilty; not simply as a means of protecting its citizens, but as a means of applying retributive justice in the name of God, thereby rendering a genuine and valuable service to the common good.

By contrast, Archbishop Chaput, whose arguments are representative of those who support the Newchurch approach to capital punishment, wrote:

Nor does [the death penalty] heal or redress any wounds, because only forgiveness can do that. (ibid.)

Modern day Rome’s movement to abolish capital punishment is a veritable time bomb that necessarily invites all manner of heresies that are lurking just beneath its surface.

Consider:

You see, if one carries to their logical conclusion the arguments put forth in favor of the Wojtyłan-Bergoglian approach to capital punishment, effectively undermined along the way are such fundamental doctrines as the Church’s understanding that the wages of sin is death; her teaching concerning Our Lord’s work of Redemption, and the Catholic conviction that our individual sufferings and death can be redemptive for ourselves and for others.

But the devastation doesn’t stop there.

Also at stake is immutable doctrine concerning the identity of the Holy Catholic Church as the Mystical Body of Christ wherein the work of Redemption continues; the nature of Holy Mass wherein the Sacred Victim is offered in atonement for our sins, and therefore likewise our understanding of Holy Orders and the role of the priesthood.

Indeed, even the doctrine of the faith concerning Baptism as that through which we die with Christ – a death entirely necessary in order to rise with Him to new life – is placed in jeopardy.

In other words, if Newchurch’s teaching on the death penalty stands, like dominoes, numerous authentic Catholic doctrines are destined to fall.

This brings me to the more egregious error upon which the post-conciliar approach to the death penalty is based; namely, a hyper-inflated view of human dignity.

The aforementioned CDF Letter to Bishops repeatedly claims recourse to the “dignity” of the human person; with the underlying suggestion being that this applies specifically to those who commit the most serious of crimes:

This development centers principally on the clearer awareness of the Church for the respect due to every human life. Along this line, John Paul II affirmed: “Not even a murderer loses his personal dignity, and God himself pledges to guarantee this.”

…today the increasing understanding that the dignity of a person is not lost even after committing the most serious crimes…

… eliminate the death penalty and to continue the substantive progress made in conforming penal law both to the human dignity of prisoners…

… a decisive commitment to favor a mentality that recognizes the dignity of every human life…

Having made its case, the Letter claims:

It is in this light that Pope Francis has asked for a revision of the formulation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the death penalty in a manner that affirms that “no matter how serious the crime that has been committed, the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and the dignity of the person.”

The inviolability and the dignity of the person…

The wording here is rather interesting; it suggests that the human person has both inviolability and dignity, which in a certain sense is true. And yet, we must take a closer look.

First, understand that “inviolable” simply means that which cannot be violated, corrupted, or diminished.

The human being has a unique dignity among the creatures of the earth. Unlike the beasts, having been created in the image and likeness of God, he is a rational person. Even the most egregious sinner remains a human being; i.e., he does not truly lose his personhood. In this sense, one may perhaps speak of the inviolability of the person, though in the present case, the phrase practically guarantees error.

How so?

It would be a grave error to imagine (as modern day churchmen most certainly do) that the human person therefore has “inviolable dignity” – that is, a dignity that cannot be violated, corrupted or diminished. It most certainly can. How? By sin.

St. Thomas Aquinas stated the following while addressing (in the affirmative) the question: Whether it is lawful to kill sinners?

By sinning man departs from the order of reason, and consequently falls away from human dignity … and he falls into the slavish state of the beasts. (cf ST, II_II, Q64, A2)

Interestingly, the Roman Catechism begins its examination of “exceptions” to the Fifth Commandment by stating that it does not pertain to the killing of “irrational animals.” From there, it addresses the just execution of criminals (cited above). This progression of thought is eminently logical in light of Aquinas’ teaching that by sin man can lose his dignity and descend to the state of the beasts.

Treating human dignity as inviolable, as if it cannot be diminished much less lost, however, is precisely the error upon which the Newchurch treatment of capital punishment is founded.

John Paul the Great Humanist – the same who paved the road that led to the recent Bergoglian update (if one can call it that) – made this error perfectly plain (to cite just one example) in a 1993 address to a gathering of psychiatrists in Rome when he stated:

…the human person is a unity of body and spirit, possessing an inviolable dignity as one made in the image of God and called to a transcendent destiny.

Do you see what he did there? He took the inviolability of personhood as based upon man having been created in God’s image, and he misapplied it to human dignity.

A decade before John Paul II made the statement above, a document issued by the Vatican’s International Theological Commission provided evidence of just how deeply this error had already taken root in Rome in a text entitled, The Dignity and Rights of the Human Person:

In his [sic] Incarnation he [sic] conferred maximum dignity on human nature. For that reason the Son of God is united in some way to every man (GS 22 § 2; RH 8).

Get that? Every man without distinction enjoys maximum dignity, in his human nature, simply by virtue of the Incarnation! If this were so (and it is not), then yes, human dignity would be inviolable.

Note the origins of this madness – Vatican Council II, and the disastrous inaugural Encyclical of the John Paul II’s pontificate, Redemptor Hominis.

While it may not be immediately obvious, what we have here is yet another concrete manifestation of the warning given by Our Lady of Fatima as described by the future Pope Pius XII, which reads in part as follows:

A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God.

You see, inviolable dignity rightly belongs by nature to just One, and that is God. In other words, the dignity proper to God cannot be violated, corrupted or diminished – the mechanism by which this happens being sin – because of who He is in His very nature.

One may be compelled to ask:

But what of Our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and true man?

Perhaps a theologian could write several thousand words on this topic, but for our purposes, it is enough to recognize that the dignity proper to Our Lord, in His human nature, was inviolable by virtue of the hypostatic union; His “two natures which undergo no confusion, no change, no division, no separation.” (Council of Chalcedon)

As for Our Lady, the New Eve, while she lived her entire life in perfect union with the will of God, she could have exercised the free will to sin (thus diminishing her dignity) had she so chosen; just as Eve had. As such, we cannot say even of the Blessed Virgin that her dignity as a human creature of God was inviolable.

In conclusion, when a Dicastery of the Roman Curia states that the Incarnation has conferred maximum dignity on human nature as a whole, and John Paul II declares that the dignity of the human person is inviolable, and Francis decrees that the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person, we need to understand what is really happening:

Those who claim to speak in the name of the Church have surely succumbed to the temptation to believe that man has become God.

Just as Our Lady of Fatima forewarned.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: deathpenalty; francischurch; heresy; vcii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-88 next last
To: ebb tide; vladimir998

I think both of you folks (and others here) would be very interested in hearing this discussion that they had on EWTN's "The World Over" show with Raymond Arroyo this evening.   Arroyo discussed this change (and other things) with two men he calls the "Papal Posse", Father Gerald Murray, who is a Catholic Canon Lawyer and Priest of the Archdiocese of New York, and the Editor-In-Chief of "The Catholic Thing.org", Robert Royal.

I'll post the link for that show, and I hope it sheds some light on this issue.   God bless all here.

Here's the link:

       "World Over - 2018-08-02 – Papal Posse on the McCarrick Scandal, Death Penalty with Raymond Arroyo"

I have to say goodnight right now, but I hope that discussion on EWTN is helpful.

41 posted on 08/03/2018 12:39:04 AM PDT by Songcraft
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998; ebb tide
But is now to be viewed as “inadmissible”. That was my point. Pope Francis IS NOT saying it is intrinsically evil. He’s saying it is INADMISSIBLE. This is in line with the development of doctrine already in the ‘97 CCC.

Inadmissible to what?? Inadmissible to the secular power? Inadmissible morally? Inadmissible policy-wise?

Do you know? Does anyone know? Or are we now just applying new words to things without explaining them?

42 posted on 08/03/2018 3:05:12 AM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

“Once I read and recognize heresy, I ignore it from then on.”

That still means you stated a falsehood. Keep twisting in the wind, ebb tide.


43 posted on 08/03/2018 4:18:48 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

“I realize I have broken my own caucus, so to all: consider it open.”

That’s how desperate you are to cover up your embarrassment? You always do this. Why not just get it right from the beginning?


44 posted on 08/03/2018 4:21:10 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Claud

“Inadmissible to what??”

To usage.

“Inadmissible to the secular power?”

Anyone apparently.

“Inadmissible morally?”

Yes.

“Inadmissible policy-wise?”

You can separate morality from policy? Ever?

“Do you know?”

Not really, but I can think clearly.

“Does anyone know?”

Francis probably does.

“Or are we now just applying new words to things without explaining them?”

It could be deliberately vague - like other things in the CCC.


45 posted on 08/03/2018 4:23:27 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Salvavida

“Yeah....and that would have caused significant disruption in his plan”

Disruption or not, he protected a guilty man from vengeance. Also, the death penalty existed before God instituted the Law. Be consistent.


46 posted on 08/03/2018 4:31:53 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thou shalt not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. -Council of Trent

So Francis is saying that it is inadmissable to perform an act of obedience to God's Holy Commandments.

Anyone who doesn't see this clear contradiction and change in doctrine does not want to see this.

47 posted on 08/03/2018 4:35:45 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
Is the quote from the pope or the apparition claiming to be Mary?

Also, is the quote in context or taken out of context?

I'm asking you in light of your background.

While it may not be immediately obvious, what we have here is yet another concrete manifestation of the warning given by Our Lady of Fatima as described by the future Pope Pius XII, which reads in part as follows:

A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God.

48 posted on 08/03/2018 5:16:39 AM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

“...Catechism of the Council of Trent”

The Council of Trent, in addressing the Fifth Commandment, also references Genesis 9:6 in a footnote.

Allowing the death penalty is settled catholic doctrine and this Pope is out of control.


49 posted on 08/03/2018 5:40:38 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Songcraft

IS Bergoglio’s position defended on Arroyo’s show or refuted? (I would like to know before I watch).


50 posted on 08/03/2018 5:46:27 AM PDT by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
If it's "inadmissable morally" in every conceivable case, then it's intrinsically evil. What can the difference between those two possibly be?

If it's intrinsically evil, then God taught the Israelites to commit intrinsic evils.

Where do you go from there? "Scripture is wrong"? "The God of the Old Testament was a different God from that of the New?" (The heresy of Marcion.)

I am surprised that you don't see how completely pernicious this is.

51 posted on 08/03/2018 5:51:11 AM PDT by Campion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Campion
Not to mention this part of Francis' new teaching:

Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that “the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person”, and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

"In light of the Gospel"? "an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person"?

Francis is teaching that the DP is contrary to the Gospel.

52 posted on 08/03/2018 6:06:15 AM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide
It’s not a “development”; it’s a total change, i.e reversal, of doctrine.

And mark my words, it won't be the last.


53 posted on 08/03/2018 6:18:40 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Campion

“If it’s “inadmissable morally” in every conceivable case, then it’s intrinsically evil.”

I do not believe he used the phrase “inadmissable morally”. I think he merely said it was inadmissible.

“What can the difference between those two possibly be?”

Again, he didn’t use the phrase you did. He wrote:

“The death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,”

“If it’s intrinsically evil, then God taught the Israelites to commit intrinsic evils.”

Such a claim has long been made who deliberately misunderstand things such as Deuteronomy 22:28-29. I’m just rather surprised you should make such a claim since it is so obviously false. The Pope’s text says “Yet today” - which indicates development of doctrine. Thus, God did not teach an intrinsic evil to Israel. It was admissible. Now it is not - at least according to Pope Francis. We’ll see how this shakes out over time.


54 posted on 08/03/2018 6:46:19 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: ealgeone

“Is the quote from the pope or the apparition claiming to be Mary?”

If you mean the quote you appended to your post, that apparently, according to the article, was said by Our Lady of Fatima. But I am not sure and I am not alone in that thought: https://bellarmineforum.org/2013/06/21/did-cardinal-pacelli-pius-xii-really-say-this/

“I’m asking you in light of your background.”

?


55 posted on 08/03/2018 7:11:26 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01

I would urge you to watch the clip.   Those two men (Fr. Murray and Robert Royal) are both very honest and frank, and while they use measured language, and carefully choose the words they use, both of them express their serious problems with what the Pope is doing here, and they give reasons why they do not consider this simply a "development of doctrine", but rather an actual break in the teachings of the Church that should not have been done.   They are both very "troubled" at what the Pope has done here.

Arroyo always starts his EWTN "World Over" shows with various headlines of stories that impact the Church, and does that here, then the first topic the three of them actually discuss here is this death penalty issue.   (Their discussion starts at about the 2:12 mark in the youtube clip.)

56 posted on 08/03/2018 7:18:50 AM PDT by Songcraft
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

Your background in RCC history.


57 posted on 08/03/2018 7:18:51 AM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
I think he merely said it was inadmissible.

Lookups for inadmissible spiked on August 2, 2018, following the announcement from the Vatican of the Catholic church’s official position on the death penalty.

Anyway you look at it, the Catholic Church has taught a just death penalty by the state is admissible for 2,000 years. Now, you and Bergoglio are saying it's inadmissible.

That is a reversal of doctrine, not a "development".

Likewise, giving Holy Communion to unrepentant adulters, living in mortal sin and lacking grace is a "reversal" of doctrine, not a "development" of it.

58 posted on 08/03/2018 9:09:02 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

Correct link:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/news-trend-watch/pope-francis-death-penalty-is-inadmissible-20180802


59 posted on 08/03/2018 9:11:53 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: ebb tide

It’s not a “development”; it’s a total change, i.e reversal, of doctrine.


Not quite, in that the wording and format do not reach doctrinal levels in the strict sense of doctrine, but it is definitely one of the more confusing things to come out of the Pontificate.

I’d rather that he stick to urging people to avoid using paper (Laudato SI 211), though that also seems to be something that is generally a reversal of recent Church practice. It is time to bring back parchment now. That’s how it was done in the early Church.


60 posted on 08/03/2018 9:18:21 AM PDT by Hieronymus ((It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G. K. Chesterton))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-88 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson