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The Birth of Jesus and the Day of Trumpets... Jesus Born on September 11th
Associates for Scriptural Knowledge ^ | 2017 | A.S.K

Posted on 09/10/2018 10:03:09 PM PDT by Sontagged

The historical evidence I have presented in this book shows that Jesus was born in the year 3 B.C.E.

It appears most probable that a late summer birth in 3 B.C.E. has the best credentials. I need not rehearse my reasons for this, but they are very strong.

Indeed, the evidence from the priestly courses alone suggests that a September nativity is the most likely.

This gives a pretty close approximation that most scholars would probably accept as reasonable. But now, we come to the nitty-gritty! To propose an early evening birth on September 11, 3 B.C.E. appears almost impossible to believe.

To get that close to his time of birth might at first seem to be fanciful.

The fact is, however, I can state without a shadow of a doubt, that the celestial scene described by the apostle John in Revelation 12:1–5, if viewed astronomically, would center precisely on a New Moon date within mid-September, and that in 3 B.C.E. that exact celestial phenomenon would have occurred in the early evening of September 11th.

I can also state with assurance that sundown on September 11, 3 B.C.E. was also the beginning of the Jewish New Year (Rosh ha-Shanah #8213; The Day of Trumpets).

Even if the apostle John were only giving the symbolic time for Jesus’ nativity, and not the actual, we are provided with a great deal of insight on how early Christians interpreted significant periods of time on the holy calendar of Israel.

If Jesus were actually born on Rosh ha-Shanah (the Day of Trumpets) in 3 B.C.E., a most impressive astronomical panorama of events burst forth on the scene that would have awed and astonished most Jewish people who lived at the time.

Truly, this is not an exaggeration.

The Importance of the Day of Trumpets

Look at the celestial events that occurred around that Rosh ha-Shanah date of September 11th in 3 B.C.E. Exactly one month before (on August 12) the world would have witnessed the close conjunction of Jupiter (reckoned astrologically as the Father) and Venus (the Mother) when they were only .07 degrees from one another when they appeared as morning stars on the eastern horizon.

This was a very close union. But then, nineteen days later (August 31), Venus came to within .36 degrees of Mercury in a very similar astronomical display.

Then, on September 11th, the New Moon occurred which represented the Jewish New Year. This happened when Jupiter (the King planet) was then approaching Regulus (the King star).

And, on September 14, Jupiter and Regulus came to their first of three conjunctions in this extraordinary year. Then, over an eight month period, Jupiter made its “crowning effect” over the King star Regulus. There could hardly have been a better astronomical testimony to the birth of the new messianic king from the Jewish point of view. Why? Because every one of these celestial occurrences I have mentioned happened with the Sun or planets being positioned within the constellation of Leo the Lion (the constellation of Judah — from whence the Messiah was destined to emerge) or in Virgo the Virgin.

The apostle John may have seen importance in these extraordinary occurrences when he symbolically showed that Jesus was born at the New Moon of Tishri, the Day of Trumpets (Revelation 12:1–3).

What we now need to do is to rehearse some of the typical and figurative features of the biblical accounts associated with this particular day.

They may well reveal why John and early Christians looked on Jesus as the Christ and the king of the universe.

The Day of Trumpets was a special day that symbolically showed this rule.

Jesus Was Born On The Day of Trumpets

If one can realize that the New Testament shows Jesus born on the Day of Trumpets (the first day of Tishri ― the start of the Jewish civil year) an impressive amount of symbolic features emerge on the biblical and prophetic scenes. Before the period of the Exodus in the time of Moses, this was the day that began the biblical year.

It also looks like this was the day when people were advanced one year of life ― no matter at what month of the year they were actually born.

Notice that the patriarch Noah became 600 years of age “in the first month [Tishri], the first day of the month [later to be called the Day of Trumpets]” (Genesis 8:13). That was the very day when “Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry” (v. 13). This was not only Noah’s official birthday, it became a new birth after the Flood for the earth as well.

There is more.

Even the first day of creation mentioned in Genesis 1:1–5 could be reckoned as being this very day. The early Jews discussed whether the actual creation took place in spring or in autumn.

But since the autumn commenced all biblical years before the Exodus (Exodus 12:2), and since all the fruit was then on the trees ready for Adam and Eve to eat (Genesis 1:29; 2:9, 16–17), it suggests that the month of Tishri was the creation month, beginning near the autumn.

If so, then the first day of creation mentioned in Genesis was also the first of Tishri (at least, Moses no doubt intended to give that impression). This means that not only was this the birthday of the new earth in Noah’s day and what was later to become the Day of Trumpets on the Mosaic calendar, but it was also the day which ushered in the original creation of the heavens and the earth.

As shown before, among the Jews this day was called Rosh ha-Shanah (the Feast of the New Year). The majority belief of Jewish elders (which still dominates the services of the synagogues) was that the Day of Trumpets was the memorial day that commemorated the beginning of the world.

Authorized opinion prevailed that the first of Tishri was the first day of Genesis 1:1–5. It “came to be regarded as the birthday of the world.” 1 It was even more than an anniversary of the physical creation. The Jewish historian Theodor H. Gaster states,

“Judaism regards New Year’s Day not merely as an anniversary of creation ― but more importantly ― as a renewal of it. This is when the world is reborn.” 2

Gaster’s insight is so germane to the interpretation of the significance of biblical festivals that I will be referring to his research several times in my following references.

When Was The “Last Trump”?

The matter does not stop there.

Each of the Jewish months was officially introduced by the blowing of trumpets (Numbers 10:10).

Since the festival year in which all the Mosaic festivals were found was seven months long, the last month (Tishri) was the last month for a festival trumpet.

This is one of the reasons that the day was called “the Day of Trumpets.”

The last trump in the seven months’ series was always sounded on this New Moon day. This made it the final trumpets’ day (Leviticus 23:24; Numbers 29:1).

This was the exact day that many of the ancient kings and rulers of Judah reckoned as their inauguration day of rule. This procedure was followed consistently in the time of Solomon, Jeremiah, and Ezra 3 The Day of Trumpets was also acknowledged as the time for counting the years of their kingly rule.

Indeed, it was customary that the final ceremony in the coronation of kings was the blowing of trumpets.

For Solomon, “Blow ye the trumpet, and say, ‘God save king Solomon’” (1 Kings 1:34).

For Jehu, “And [they] blew with trumpets, saying, ‘Jehu is king’” (2 Kings 9:13).

At the enthronement of Jehoash, “The people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets” (2 Kings 11:11).

There could well be a reflection of this symbolic feature in the New Testament. The Day of Trumpets was the time for the start of the seventh month (since the time of Moses), and the time for the “last trump” to introduce festival months.

Note that in the Book of Revelation, we have the record of a heavenly angel who will blow the seventh and last trumpet blast. And recall what happens at the exact time this “last trump” is sounded.

“And the seventh angel sounded [blew the last trump]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, ‘The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever [for the ages of the ages].’”

Revelation 11:15

In New Testament parlance this shows the time of the coronation of Jesus, and it happens at the seventh (or last) trump in the Book of Revelation ― the Day of Trumpets.

Further Significance Of The Day of Trumpets

The early Jews also recognized that the Day of Trumpets was a memorial day for considering those who had died. It was not a simple type of “Memorial Day” that we moderns are accustomed to.

Gaster said it was a symbolic time when “the dead return to rejoin their descendants at the beginning of the year.”

4 Such a day was a time when Israel would rally to the call of God for the inauguration of God’s kingdom on earth. Gaster also states this was the time that became “a symbol of the Last Trump.”

5 Since the apostle Paul was Jewish, it is possible that his reference to the “Last Trump” and the resurrection from the dead was also connected with the same biblical theme. The “Last Trump” of the early Jews was when the dead were remembered.

To Paul the “Last Trump” was the time for Jesus’ second advent and the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

Truly, the Day of Trumpets theme is that of kingship. There may even be a reference to this in the elevation of the patriarch Joseph to kingship on this New Moon day which began the month of Tishri. Notice that he had been in a dungeon for “two full years” (Genesis 41:1).

It was not simply a two year period which Moses was intending, but the passage of two full years. The implication is that the story of Joseph’s rise to kingship happened on a New Year’s Day.

This is manifest in Psalm 81, a New Year’s psalm commemorating Joseph’s royal enthronement (Genesis 41:40). As with Jesus, in Revelation 11:15, the kingdoms of the world became Joseph’s on the day intended for coronations ― the day that later became the Day of Trumpets.

Of course, Pharaoh retained top leadership, but as the New Testament shows, God the Father still maintains supreme rule over Jesus even when Jesus is prophesied to rule the kingdoms of this world.

The Crowning Of Kings

As we have shown from the Bible, the blowing of trumpets was the sign that kings could then begin to rule (1 Kings 1:34; 2 Kings 9:13; 11:11). Jewish authorities long acknowledged this royal import to the Day of Trumpets.

Gaster states, “The Sovereignty of God is a dominant theme of the occasion [and] it is one of the cardinal features of New Year’s Day.”

6 The main issue that prevailed in the significance of the day was the triumph of God as a king over all the forces of evil. The symbolic motif of the Day of Trumpets, as Gaster shows, was God “continually fighting His way to the Kingdom, continually asserting His dominion, and continually enthroning Himself as sovereign of creation. At New Year when the world was annually reborn that sovereignty was evinced anew.” 7

The theological thrust of the early Jews within their synagogue services for the Day of Trumpets was the fact that God rules over all and that he is the King of kings. On Trumpets it was common to quote Zechariah 14:16. “The king, the Lord of hosts.” Indeed, some scholars have suggested that psalms which begin “Yahweh is become king [or ‘The Lord reigns’]” (Psalm 93 and 97) were originally designed for recitation at the New Year festival.” 8 Recent study shows this to be true. It is postulated by many scholars that in Israel, Yahweh was crowned annually at the “New Year feast of Yahweh.” The scholar Mowinckel has argued that the “enthronement psalms” (Psalms 47, 93, 96–99) in which Yahweh reigns were a part of the liturgy of the ancient synagogues. 9 There is no doubt that this is true. This was also the very day when Jesus was born.

Jesus as the King of Kings

The central theme of the Day of Trumpets is clearly that of enthronement of the great King of kings. This was the general understanding of the day in early Judaism and it is certainly that of the New Testament. In Revelation 11:15, recall that the seventh angel sounds his “last trump” and the kingdoms of this world become those of Jesus.

This happens at a time when a woman is seen in heaven with twelve stars around her head and the Sun mid-bodied to her, with the Moon under her feet.

This is clearly a New Moon scene for the Day of Trumpets.

And note: Professor Thorley who reviewed the first edition of my work has shown that there are exactly twelve stars surrounding the head of Virgo as we see them from earth.

And indeed there are.

If one will look at Norton’s Star Atlas, twelve visible stars will be seen around Virgo’s head. They are (according to astronomical terminology): (1) Pi, (2) Nu, (3) Beta (near the ecliptic), (4) Sigma, (5) Chi, (6) Iota — these six stars form the southern hemisphere around the head of Virgo. Then there are (7) Theta, (8) Star 60, (9) Delta, (10) Star 93, (11) Beta (the 2nd magnitude star) and (12) Omicron — these last six form the northern hemisphere around the head of Virgo.

All these stars are visible and could have been witnessed by observers on earth.

Thus, the description of the apostle John describes a perfectly normal heavenly scene that could be recognized by all people.

Here was Virgo with twelve stars around her head, while the Sun was in uterine position and the Moon under her feet.

And again, the only time this could have occurred in 3 B.C.E. was on the Day of Trumpets. This is when the “king of kings” was born.

Another explanation of the Twelve Stars around the head of Virgo is that it represents the headship position (the “head” of Virgo is situated in the last ten degrees of Leo) for the beginning of the story found within the Twelve Constellations as reckoned in the biblical Zodiac. In the biblical Zodiac, the tribe of Judah (the Lion, or Leo) was situated around the Tabernacle directly east of its entrance.

This meant that half of the tribe of Judah was south and the other half north of the east/west line from the Holy of Holies through the court of Israel and then eastward through the camp of Israel (in this case, Judah) to encounter the altar outside the camp where the Red Heifer was burnt to ashes.

This means, unlike some Gentile reckonings which started their zodiacal story with the zero line between Cancer and Leo (that is, at the very commencement of Leo), the biblical Zodiac that Drs. Bullinger and Seiss were talking about began with the 15th degree of Leo (of Judah). This signifies that the first constellation to be met with in this celestial story would have been the “head” of Virgo the Virgin which occupied the last ten degrees of Leo.

So, John began his story at this point.

The Significance of Being Born on New Year’s Day

The Day of Trumpets in the biblical and Jewish calendars is New Year’s Day for commercial and royal reckonings (just as we have January the first on our Roman calendar as the start of our New Year). This New Year’s Day signified a time of “new beginnings” to all those in Israel who accepted the teachings of the Bible. As a matter of fact, the Jews over the centuries have held to the belief that the Day of Trumpets was a cardinal date in the history of Adam (our first parent). It was the very day when Adam and Eve came to the recognition of whether to obey God or to defy him (see The Complete Artscroll Machzor, p.xvi). But that was not all that occurred on that day. No day in the year could be reckoned as being of more esteemed value and symbolic influence than Rosh Ha-Shanah. That day is important for the birth of the Messiah in several ways that are very profound in Jewish symbolism.

The book The Complete Artscroll Machzor gives some chronological details that the early Jewish theologians and scholars worked out from indications in the Old Testament to show when important individuals were born or major events happened in association with their lives. And what an array of significant things occurred on the Day of Trumpets and the month of Tishri. The book gives a summary of accounts found in the Jewish Talmud (Rosh Ha-Shanah 10b–11a).

Note what the Machzor states about this particular Day of Trumpets. The quotes are interesting and of value,

“The Patriarchs Abraham and Jacob were born on Rosh Ha-Shanah. Abraham was a new beginning for mankind after its [mankind’s] failure to realize the promise of Adam and Noah. Jacob was a new beginning for the Jewish people, for it was with him that Jews advanced from the status of individuals to that of a united family on the threshold of nationhood”

Artscroll Machzor, p.xvi, italics and bracketed word mine

The Machzor does not stop with Abraham and Jacob. Look at the following quote,

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah God remembered three barren women, the Matriarchs Sarah and Rachel, and Hannah the mother of the prophet Samuel and decreed that they would give birth. Not only was Rosh Ha-Shanah a turning point in the lives of these great and worthy women, but the births of their children were momentous events for all Jewry, because they were the historic figures Isaac, Joseph, and Samuel.”

Ibid., italics mine

If the Jewish people would realize that the New Testament in the Book of Revelation (chapter 12:1–5) also places the birth of Jesus on the very same Day of Trumpets, they might begin to understand just how important Jesus is in a Jewish sense as well as to the world. The New Testament states that he is the Messiah. He shares many similarities with the births of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph and Samuel.

People should begin to realize the significant coincidences of the birthdays of these prominent men as understood by the Jewish people. And standing out above them all, is the teaching of the apostle John that Rosh Ha-Shanah is also the birthday of Jesus.

More Significance Of The Day Of Trumpets

Jewish chronological evaluations show other important events associated with the Day of Trumpets (Rosh Ha-Shanah).

The Machzor continues,

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah, Joseph was freed from an Egyptian prison after twelve years of incarceration. He became viceroy of Egypt, provider to the world during the years of famine, and the leader of Jacob’s family. God’s plan called for Joseph to set in motion the years of exile and enslavement that were the necessary preparation for Israel’s freedom, nationhood, and emergence in a blaze of miracles to accept the Torah and march to the Land of Israel.”

Ibid.

This shows Rosh ha-Shanah as a day of freedom. There is more on the theme of freedom. The Machzor continues:

“On Rosh Ha-Shanah, the Jewish people in Egypt stopped their slave labor [they began their time of liberty and freedom], while they waited for the Ten Plagues to play themselves out so that Moses could lead them to freedom”

Ibid., words in brackets mine

The Final Festivals of Israel

As I stated, this day at the beginning of the month of Tishri was the day when the seventh trump (or the last trump) was sounded to introduce the final month when the festivals of God ordained at the time of Moses would be held.

This last trump is mentioned by the apostle Paul as heralding the events associated with the Second Advent of Christ back to this earth (1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17). This last or final trump is also mentioned by the apostle John in Revelation 11:15 as the warning sound that the Kingdom of God will soon be coming to earth. And soon after, the seven angels of the Book of Revelation will bring on the seven last plagues (in the same fashion as the Jewish analyzers of chronology saw that from the same day of Rosh Ha-Shanah the Ten Plagues were sent forth on Egypt in the time of Moses).

What is certain is the fact that the Book of Revelation (with its teaching that Jesus was born on the Day of Trumpets) is giving us in a symbolic way the time for the nativity of Jesus whom Christians considered to be the king of the world. He was prophesied to lead all people into a time of freedom and profound peace.

This is the central reason why the apostle John in Revelation 12:1–5 shows that the birth of Jesus occurred within the first few minutes (the twilight period) of the Day of Trumpets that works out to be September 11th in 3 B.C.E.

1 M’Clintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, X.568. [Editor’s note: In the print version of this book, this endnote was listed as the last endnote of Chapter 5. It rightly belongs as the first endnote of Chapter 6.] DWS

2 Gaster, Festivals of the Jewish Year, 109.

3 Thiele, The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, 28, 31, 161, 163.

4 Gaster, Festivals of the Jewish Year, 108.

5 Ibid., 113.

6 Ibid., 115.

7 Ibid.

8 Ibid., 114–115.

9 Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, II.524.


TOPICS: Current Events; History; Judaism; Theology
KEYWORDS: bunk; christianity; christsbirthday; earlychurch; sept11
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To: unlearner
Thanks for the interesting discussion and yes, it's very interesting. I like to encourage everyone to research this for themselves.

Also, I noticed that I messed up on describing Conception vs. Hanukah. To clarify, I feel the time of Conception likely occurred at the start of Hanukah (Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.), as a shadow of a previous event - Hanukah first, Conception the latter event.

This is precisely what occurred Passover vs Crucifixion - one a "shadow event" of the other. Wonder what else is coming based on the previous dates?

All said, IMO, one of the more important observance we should keep, daily, is to remember Him when we break bread and drink from the cup. :)

81 posted on 09/16/2018 1:13:28 PM PDT by amorphous
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To: amorphous

“This is precisely what occurred Passover vs Crucifixion - one a ‘shadow event’ of the other. Wonder what else is coming based on the previous dates?”

Paul described the feasts, new moon, and sabbaths as “a shadow of things to come” in Colossians 2:17. Interestingly, the only feast that occurs on a new moon is the Feast of Trumpets. (The other new moons of the year were also celebrated but were not among the prescribed feast days.)

“All said, IMO, one of the more important observance we should keep, daily, is to remember Him when we break bread and drink from the cup.”

These elements exquisitely picture the death and resurrection of Christ, the coming of the Holy Spirit, and His second coming. Of course, the bread pictures His physical body being broken at Calvary, and the fruit of the vine pictures His blood which was the payment for our sins. Like you said, these are things we must keep before us daily—taking up our cross daily, dying daily, and being made conformable to His death. We commemorate His death with perishable symbols because there is no body in a grave somewhere to visit as a shrine. He is risen. We don’t have to take a pilgrimage to connect with this. He told His disciples to keep this ordinance until He comes again. It foreshadows the time when He will return and dine with us.

The coming of the Holy Spirit is pictured because not only Christ’s physical body is pictured in the bread, but also His spiritual body, the church.

1 Corinthians 10:16-17
The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.

This is the primary meaning of Paul’s warning about “not discerning the the Lord’s body” which he expounds further in the subsequent passages about spiritual gifts bestowed by the Spirit.


82 posted on 09/16/2018 1:40:55 PM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: mdmathis6

December 25 observed as a holy day isn’t holy to the Father or the Son.

He wasn’t born there and when one divorces themselves from false traditions of men, that His Word and science can prove isn’t accurate, they may see one way how Satan can possibly deceive the whole world.

One way Satan deceives the whole world is with the calendar. People calling holy what isn’t..

I for one am not married to September 11. That is a date on the false Roman calendar.

It isn’t biblical either.

The day that commemorates when the Word became flesh is a day that occurs once a month, not just once a year.
And it is a day the Father taught Israel to keep holy.
A day that points to Genesis 1:1, John 1:1 and John 1:14

That is a monthly occurrence on the Father’s calendar,not an annual.
Interestingly though, September 11 2018 was in fact one of those holy days on the Fathers calendar. A day He has once a month, that points to Genesis1:1, John 1:1, and John 1:14.

When the world gets to see that, all the inherited lies we have been forced to follow will start to melt away.

His birth occurred on a biblically significant holy day that the Father has at the beginning of every one of His months, because it commemorates the Beginning.
Israel was called to keep that day holy every month.

He was circumcised on a day that is holy every month as a Sabbath on the Father’s calendar. Israel was called to keep that day holy every month.

He was presented in the temple on a day that is holy once a year. A Sabbath on the Father’s calendar. Israel was called to keep that day holy once a year.

He was baptized on a day that is holy every month.
He began His ministry on a day that is holy once a year.
He was killed as the Lamb on a day that is set apart once a year, but is commemorated once a month on the Father’s calendar.
He laid in the tomb resting on a Sabbath that is holy every month.
He was raised on a day that is set apart once a year, but is commemorated once a month on the Father’s calendar.

The Holy Spirit was gifted on a day that is holy once a year ,but also commemorated every month on the Father’s calendar.

The Word really did become flesh.

It will be amazing when Israel learns this. They don’t follow it today. They can’t. They follow inherited lies that blind them from the Truth.
Satan’s lies are hiding Truth that can open the eyes of the blind. When one stops accepting the lies, the eyes can be open to Truth.

The World needs that dearly.
But religion may fall in the process


83 posted on 09/16/2018 3:01:29 PM PDT by delchiante
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To: amorphous
Both Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, practices, ceremonies, and Easter/"Ishtar", which is pronounced "Easter" was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called "Tammuz", who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.

The word in the Bible translated as Easter is Pascha (πάσχα in Greek, Of Aramaic origin cf פֶּסַח)

"Easter" is an English word. One could argue the Greek and Latin are correct (Pascha), and the English translations are erroneous, which would put in question much Protestant tradition. However, a Protestant KJV expert published this explanation for why Easter is correct, and a Christian holyday.

"Easter comes from the ancient pagan festival of Astarte/Ishtar, and Herod as a pagan was waiting for that event."

There are several problems with this argument:

First, the idea that Easter is derived from Astarte/Ishtar5 seems to come first- or second-hand from Alexander Hislop's 1853 book The Two Babylons. As far as I can see, Hislop repeatedly makes the assertion of the connection between Easter and Astarte, but never provides any sources for his claim6. What is entirely ironic is that Hislop is not arguing that "Easter" was associated with Astart at the time of Herod - his argument is that "Easter" was originally entirely Christian but was corrupted by the Roman Catholic Church incorporating elements of pagan religions (including Astarte) in the 5th century A.D.7, long after Herod died. Despite this alleged connection of Astarte with Easter, many scholars now think this connection is a "false etymology", meaning that it is only assumed correct because of the similar sounds between "Easter" and "Ishtar". Instead, the name "Easter" is probably derived from the Anglo-Saxon pagan goddess (post-dating Herod) of "Eostur"8 (and for those anti-Easter folk out there: even if the name has some pagan origins does not mean the Christian commemoration is therefore also pagan).

Second, there is not a shred of evidence that Herod was waiting for any pagan festival - it is pure, unsupported speculation in an attempt to make "Passover" into a bad translation. Instead, the passage tells us that Herod took Peter because "it pleased the Jews" - I think waiting for a pagan festival would have the opposite effect, as would killing Peter during the Holy week of Passover. For that matter, so would waiting to observe the Christian commemoration of Christ's resurrection.

Third, to the KJV translators, "Easter" was not a pagan holiday, but a Christian one. They observed Easter and many of the calendar charts in the front of a 1611 KJV are based on Easter9. If "Easter" is a pagan holiday, the KJV translators were pagan.

Forth, the 1828 Webster's dictionary, which many KJV-only supporters claim is the dictionary to use to define words in the KJV, gives the definition of "Easter" as "A festival of the christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque."

84 posted on 09/16/2018 3:10:42 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
. However, a Protestant KJV expert published this explanation for why Easter is correct, and a Christian holyday.

I don't claim to be an "expert", but the expert person's explanation, which you quoted, is incorrect.

First, Astarte is only one of many derivatives of the original goddess Ishtar, who dates way back to practically the beginning of recorded history. Other, later fertility goddess with similar characteristics, are Inanna and Aphrodite among others.

I'm not familiar with the author's source material, a "Alexander Hislop's 1853 book The Two Babylons", but there are countless relics, scrolls and a number of clay tablet recordings available which describe these ancient pagan gods and goddesses and their progression through history.

Second, I'm not sure what the author is trying to say in his second part, for Herod was a Jew, king of the Jews at the time Judea was a client state of Rome, even so, it practiced its own religious beliefs.

Thirdly, the KJV mentions "Easter" one time, in Acts 12:4:

"And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people."

The NIV doesn't use the term "Easter". And frankly, it wouldn't be the only time KJ translators messed up a translation. Certainly other parts of the KJV verify it was Passover, Herod was most concerned about - just my thoughts, an admitted none expert - and the Pagan observance of "Easter" occurred during springtime, IIRC.

Fourthly, there are much better sources than the 1828 Webster's dictionary to use to define words in the KJV Bible. One of many Bible Concordances to begin with.

Regardless of what you or others may currently believe, I strongly encourage looking into the matter further. It is a fascinating and very interesting study, and will serve to increase your knowledge of God's Word.

"I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better." - Ephesians 1:17

85 posted on 09/16/2018 7:39:10 PM PDT by amorphous
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To: af_vet_1981
Looking closer,

Third, to the KJV translators, "Easter" was not a pagan holiday, but a Christian one. They observed Easter and many of the calendar charts in the front of a 1611 KJV are based on Easter9. If "Easter" is a pagan holiday, the KJV translators were pagan.

And rereading Acts 12, the chapter that mentions Easter in the KJV:

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.

2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

...

Apparently the Jews under Herod's direction, captured Peter around the time of the feast of unleavened bread (a seven day feast which includes Passover). And apparently around this same time, Peter was turned over to "four quaternions of [most likely Roman] soldiers [each quaternion consisted of four soldiers, so that they were in all sixteen].

Lightly researching the Roman version of Ishtar/Easter, their goddess of fertility, you find references to Cybele. In the Spring (around the time of Passover) the Romans also had their own "holy days" for honoring this goddess.

It makes sense Herod would wait until after these festivities completed before requesting "four quaternions" of [most likely Roman] soldiers to bring him (Peter) forth to the people.

In this case, I believe the KJ translators got the translation right and the expert whom you quoted, simply confused the Jewish feast days with Roman feast days.

I agree Herod, a Jew, probably did not observe the Roman "Easter", other than as an officiating requirement?

86 posted on 09/16/2018 9:54:19 PM PDT by amorphous
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To: amorphous

The English word “Easter” did not exist at that time. It was derived from a German word many centuries later, sort of like Protestantism. The Greek and Latin word in the Bible is correct. Easter is a word for the Christian holyday of the Resurrection of Jesus after His death during Passover.


87 posted on 09/17/2018 5:27:31 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: amorphous
Here is another link that explains the Germanic origin of the word "Easter" and presents two options. The latter option not previously mentioned:

Because the English Anglo/Saxon language originally derived from the Germanic, there are many similarities between German and English. Many English writers have referred to the German language as the "Mother Tongue!" The English word Easter is of German/Saxon origin and not Babylonian as Alexander Hislop falsely claimed. The German equivalent is Oster. Oster (Ostern being the modern day equivalent) is related to Ost which means the rising of the sun, or simply in English, east. Oster comes from the old Teutonic form of auferstehen / auferstehung, which means resurrection, which in the older Teutonic form comes from two words, Ester meaning first, and stehen meaning to stand. These two words combine to form erstehen which is an old German form of auferstehen, the modern day German word for resurrection.7 (Italics in original)
88 posted on 09/17/2018 5:33:17 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Tzaphon; Sontagged
The Hebrew calendar is a lunar calendar...

YHvH's calendar may appear to be lunar,
however,
it is corrected each year by the ripening of the barley.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
89 posted on 09/17/2018 1:30:23 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Sontagged
I think you will find 2001 & 2008
can be better explained by
the 29th of the month of Elul
when all debts are forgiven &
slaves released each Sabbath year.

+ See Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's books

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

90 posted on 09/17/2018 1:50:32 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: af_vet_1981
The Feast of Dedication is not found in Leviticus 23. That right there is all you need to know about that day being about Jesus. I'm not saying it's not important, or scriptural, or anything like that. I'm saying God didn't include it in Leviticus 23. Those are God's days that he said were to be rehearsals for upcoming events FROM HIM! The book of Maccabees was written after Malachi and before the birth of Jesus. The Maccabees were removed from the 1611 KJV in the 1800's. IMO, it was removed because America had just revolted against Britain( They printed the Bibles) in 1776 and it might seem God was in favor of revolt by his people. Others have said some books were removed to save paper. I love Maccabees because it shows a type and shadow of the upcoming Antichrist. Jesus tells us the Jews won't accept Him because He comes in the name of His Father, but someone will come in their own name and they will accept him.

Protestants don't revere the Leviticus Feast Days because they "feel" they are for the Jews. On the contrary, God said they were His Feast days. If you belong to Him, they are for you. God laid out His plan very early to make sure His people knew the calendar of events that were coming. Hanukkah was not one of them. People seem to forget that we have been adopted into the Family of God. That is Israel(Jacob)

I gave you all of the reasons Jesus was born on Tabernacles. They say the poles lit with swaddling cloths soaked in oil in the Temple courtyard is the "light of the world."

John 8:12, Jesus is in the Temple with the adulterous woman. He states that He was the Light of the World. This was on Tabernacles and the Jews would have been reading Scripture about the Light of the world. "Light of the world" is a theme of Tabernacles. He announced to everyone He was the Light of the World. John 10:1 was Hanukkah and Jesus was on the porch. I don't read anything about Him saying here that He is the Light of the World. There is a couple of months between Tabernacles and Hanukkah.

We could have a discussion if you wanted to assert Jesus was born on Trumpets, Yom Kippur, or Tabernacles, because a baby can be a few weeks early or late. But God told of His days thousands of years in advance. Jesus died exactly at the same hour the evening sacrifice was killed on Passover in the Temple. He rose from the dead exactly on First Fruits. All predicted thousands of years in advance. Hanukkah is not even listed in Leviticus 23.

...." Tradition ascribes it to winter, with the Western half of the Church using December 25 and the Eastern half January 6."....

The first word says "Tradition". We are to beware of the traditions of men. The Bible is our anchor, not men. The church of Babylon changed off of God's calendar to the Roman one. The church of Babylon changed the Feast days to pagan ones. The Sabbath is clearly listed in Leviticus 23 as the 7th day. God repeats it in the 10 Commandments in Exodus 20:10. For some arbitrary reason Rome changed to the day they worshiped the sun god. (Go figure) Ezekiel 31 speaks of a large tree being cut down by God. This "tree" speaks of a man made church. Tree's are men in the Scriptures. God's church is a woman, a virgin. This man made church has demons in it. Beasts of the field and birds of the air, refer to demons. It is the doctrine of demons to forbid marriage. Believers have been made kings and priests. We don't need a go between to pray for us. Our mediator is Jesus Himself. We are told to not pray repetitive prayers like the pagan do. Pagan's put trees in their house.

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.

Jer 10:4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple.

Jer 10:5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good."

This "tree church" will be cut down by God in the Last days, but the stump will remain(Jesus). This tree church will be another woman,....a whore. It will house the Spirit of Jezebel(Rev 2:20, the church at Thyatira) Thyatira was Semiramis's daughters name. Tammuz was her son's name who was supposedly a resurrected Nimrod.( Eze 8:14)

Isa 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, "We will eat our own food and wear our own apparel; Only let us be called by your name, To take away our reproach."

In that day, refers to the Last days. 7 women refer to ALL the churches in Revelation. Eating your own food is making up your own theology. Wearing your own apparel is calling good; evil, and calling. evil; good. But they will all call themselves Christian instead of calling themselves the church of Satan or the Temple of Baal.

I noticed you said "Protestant", like you assumed I was Protestant. NO, I'm what some call non denominational, but I call myself a believer. If I speak in tongues, you assume I'm Pentecostal, but I'm not Pentecostal. I believe the Bible. If Jesus tells me I can pray to receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues and receive other gifts, I believe Scripture. Baptists say the Perfect has come speaking of the Bible, but I say the "Perfect" is Jesus, and He hasn't come yet. Trusting your traditions or anyone else's traditions instead of Scripture is crazy. If you leave the RCC and go to a Methodist church or a Lutheran, it's just a daughter of the woman that gave you traditions of men in the first place. If you want to study Scripture, I feel much more comfortable with a Jewish Rabbi than a European Frenchman or Italian that comes from Babylons church in the 1200's.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.

God loves His people. Notice He is calling His people out of this mess of a church. He is giving them a chance to repent and come to Him and ditch this woman. If they will hear the Word of God and stop relying on traditions of men, they can be saved. If they don't, they will suffer the same fate as non believers. It's all there in The Bible and it's not as if you haven't studied. You have just studied amiss, believing men instead of the Holy Spirit. Deprogramming someone that has been raised in a cult is the hardest thing in the world. If up has been down all your life, it's difficult to stand right side up. I read many posts here on FR about the Bible and am stunned to read what some people think is in the Bible. IMO, it comes from antisemitism that blinds them that Jesus came as a Jew, lived as a Jew and died as a Jew. We have been adopted into this family, they haven't been kicked out. Joseph had 2 Gentile sons and were adopted into Jacob's(Israel) family. What on earth makes people think they know what Jesus was saying if they don't know anything about Jewish history, customs and laws? It's not new. 3 John verse 9 says John,...the one Jesus loved,... tried to visit a Greek church before he died and was turned away. For many Christians, the Jesus they study and love, is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. They have invented another Jesus that fits more like what they want, than who He is. That is as much idol worship as carving a piece of wood and putting it in your pocket to take out when you want it.

91 posted on 09/17/2018 7:35:29 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: chuckles
The Feast of Dedication is not found in Leviticus 23. That right there is all you need to know about that day being about Jesus. I'm not saying it's not important, or scriptural, or anything like that. I'm saying God didn't include it in Leviticus 23.

There are many truths not found in Leviticus, Catholic chapter twenty three.

I gave you all of the reasons Jesus was born on Tabernacles.

Without authority, just another personal religious movement.
92 posted on 09/17/2018 8:01:29 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981; chuckles
Without authority, just another personal religious movement.

There is only one authority:
Yah'shua, the WORD of G-D.

Seek the face of YHvH in his WORD.

SHALOM B'SHEM YAH'SHUA HAMASHIACH
93 posted on 09/18/2018 10:14:37 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: af_vet_1981; chuckles; All
Today at sundown begins
the holist day of YHvH's
Feast Days:

Yom Kippur : the day of Atonement.

Seek His Face in His WORD.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

94 posted on 09/18/2018 12:34:12 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
Today at sundown begins the holist day of YHvH's Feast Days:

Yom Kippur : the day of Atonement.


Odd; on what basis?

    I view the LORD's passover as the holiest day of the LORD's feasts because
  1. It is listed first in both lists (Leviticus and Deuteronomy) of the required feastdays/holydays for all male Jews to attend.
  2. The Messiah is our passover.


And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

...

Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night. Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the LORD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the LORD shall choose to place his name there. Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life. And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there anything of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning. Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee: But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents. Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.

...

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


Leviticus, Catholic chapter twenty three, Protestant verses one to eight,
Deuteronomy, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses one to eight,
First Corinthians, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses seven to eight ,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

95 posted on 09/19/2018 7:58:11 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
Yom Kippur : the day of Atonement.

Odd; on what basis?

Leviticus 16:29 mandates establishment of this holy day on the 10th day of the
7th month as the day of atonement for sins. It calls it the Sabbath of
Sabbaths and a day upon which one must afflict one's soul. Leviticus 23:27
decrees that Yom Kippur is a strict day of rest.

Seek the face of YHvH in His WORD

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
96 posted on 09/20/2018 5:55:52 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
Christians do not afflict their souls and observe all the laws of Yom Kippur. It is a holyday for Jews who still observe the laws of Torah, as best they can after adapting for historical realities (loss of Temple, Diaspora, etc.).

Christians are enjoined, as I cited, to observe the LORD's passover in the light of the New Testament.

So, unless one is a Jew practicing the Jewish religion, Yom Kippur does not directly apply.

For those Jews, it is my view that the LORD's Passover is a more important holyday, being first in the lists and bringing redemption to the nation of Israel so that it would be able to receive the Torah and observe its laws and ordinances.
97 posted on 09/20/2018 8:20:16 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
Christians do not afflict their souls and observe all the laws of Yom Kippur.
It is a holyday for Jews who still observe the laws of Torah, as best
they can after adapting for historical realities (loss of Temple, Diaspora, etc.).

Christians are enjoined, as I cited, to observe the LORD's passover
in the light of the New Testament.

So, unless one is a Jew practicing the Jewish religion, Yom Kippur does not directly apply.

Yah'shua was, is & will always be a Jew.

He will rule the world for a thousand years
with a rod of iron from the throne of David
in Jerusalem. see the Book of Revelation ch 20.

Yah'shua did not come to start the Roman church.

Yah'shua did not come to start Christianity.

Yah'shua came to be the Lamb of YHvH.

As a Pesach sacrifice for all of the sins of the world,
if one calls on His NAME,

All who call on His NAME:
Yah'shua, which means YHvH (be/is) my Salvation.
Read Romana Ch 9,10 & 11

If you wish to follow the Christ , you will be grafted in.

Seek the face of YHvH in His WORD.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
98 posted on 09/21/2018 10:37:23 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: af_vet_1981
Makes no difference if the word "Easter" came about via Ishtar or some Germanic creation. The date Easter is celebrated on, and how it's celebrated (eggs/rabbit symbols), are all connected to the worship of false fertility goddesses known by many names throughout recorded history.

The available evidence overwhelming points to the sacrifice and resurrection of Yeshua occurring on Passover and First Fruits.

99 posted on 09/21/2018 1:12:52 PM PDT by amorphous
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To: amorphous
Makes no difference if the word "Easter" came about via Ishtar or some Germanic creation. The date Easter is celebrated on, and how it's celebrated ...

Easter,[nb 1] also called Pascha (Greek, Latin)[nb 2] or Resurrection Sunday,[4][5] is a festival and holiday celebrating the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, described in the New Testament as having occurred on the third day of his burial after his crucifixion by the Romans at Calvary c. 30 AD.[6][7] It is the culmination of the Passion of Jesus, preceded by Lent (or Great Lent), a forty-day period of fasting, prayer, and penance.

Most Christians refer to the week before Easter as "Holy Week"—it contains the days of the Easter Triduum, including Maundy Thursday, commemorating the Maundy and Last Supper,[8][9] as well as Good Friday, commemorating the crucifixion and death of Jesus.[10] In Western Christianity, Eastertide, or the Easter Season, begins on Easter Sunday and lasts seven weeks, ending with the coming of the fiftieth day, Pentecost Sunday. In Eastern Christianity, the season of Pascha begins on Pascha and ends with the coming of the fortieth day, the Feast of the Ascension.

Easter and the holidays that are related to it are moveable feasts which do not fall on a fixed date in the Gregorian or Julian calendars which follow only the cycle of the sun; rather, its date is determined on a lunisolar calendar similar to the Hebrew calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established two rules, independence of the Jewish calendar and worldwide uniformity, which were the only rules for Easter explicitly laid down by the council. No details for the computation were specified; these were worked out in practice, a process that took centuries and generated a number of controversies. It has come to be the first Sunday after the ecclesiastical full moon that occurs on or soonest after 21 March,[11] but calculations vary.

Easter is linked to the Jewish Passover by much of its symbolism, as well as by its position in the calendar. In most European languages the feast called Easter in English is termed by the words for passover in those languages and in the older English versions of the Bible the term Easter was the term used to translate passover.[12] Easter customs vary across the Christian world, and include sunrise services, exclaiming the Paschal greeting, clipping the church,[13] and decorating Easter eggs (symbols of the empty tomb).[14][15][16] The Easter lily, a symbol of the resurrection,[17][18] traditionally decorates the chancel area of churches on this day and for the rest of Eastertide.[19] Additional customs that have become associated with Easter and are observed by both Christians and some non-Christians include egg hunting, the Easter Bunny, and Easter parades.[20][21][22] There are also various traditional Easter foods that vary regionally.

100 posted on 09/22/2018 6:38:26 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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