Posted on 12/07/2018 7:10:02 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
Well, it’s time for a good Christmas rant. This requires a rant, because every year, we see the same ignorant silliness. (Sorry, but it’s just true.) Supposedly, Christmas is secretly pagan, secretly syncretist, secretly a co-opting of pagan stuff and ignorantly claiming it to be Christian. But the truth about these things is so available that it’s literally staring out at you even from Wikipedia.
Well, if you are one of the people who says this stuff, I’ve got a lot of problems with you people. Let the airing of grievances begin. (And it’s not even Festivus yet!)
And Jesus didn't only come for the Jews.
But you know that.
If you believe that we are not authorized to do anything that is not directly mandated in the Bible (I don't know if you really believe that, but *if* you do)...
May I suggest your change your name to Abner?
I worked with a woman from Russia. She said that on Christmas they had a big pancake feast. The pancakes represented the sun.
Personally I get excited about Winter Solstice also. Who wouldn't be excited about the days getting longer and the return of warm weather.
Tough crowd here today (well, any day for that matter).
Jesus Christ was about The Father’s business doing His will. It’s not just Christmas —- Too many have taken The Father’s business & turned into a huge money maker —- it’s called greed. For the love of money is the ROOT of all evil!!!
Great point. Feast of Saturnalia was celebrated long before Jesus was on the scene, as early as 133 BCE. It was a feast to the agriculture god Saturn on the Winter Soltice, as a celebration of the birth of the unconquered sun (dies solis invicti nati) or commonly referred to as Natalis Invicti. The people celebrated with wreaths of greenery and trees, signifying the growth of the living and rebirth of the dead. Giving gifts, singing, socializing and feasting were the customs to honor the new birth of the sun. The Catholic Enclycopedia states it well when noted: In the fourth century, Chrysostom, “del Solst. Et Æquin.” (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: “Sed et dominus noster nascitur mense decembris . . . VIII Kal. Ian. . . . Sed et Invicti Natalem appelant. Quis utique tam invictus nisi dominus noster? . . . Vel quod dicant Solis esse natalem, ipse est Sol iustitiæ.” — “But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December . . . the eight before the calends of January [25 December] . . ., But they call it the ‘Birthday of the Unconquered’. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord . . .? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice.” The final note that was made in the 17th century version was that even though the date might be similar in origin to the Sun Feasts, it is a wonderful tradition that brings people together. I agree with what the Catholics proposed in their notes that the thing I like about Christmas is that it can be a time to bring families together (although it can also be a wedge to drive them apart). It is true that the early church incorporated many pagan rituals and holidays into the liturgy because it was needed to assimilate foreign cultures with common holidays. A failure to recognize Christmas does not necessarily reflect on a person’s belief in Jesus as Messiah, but does reflect on a wariness of Church Traditions. I don’t believe that there is any credible proof of the date when Jesus of Nazereth was born. Nor has a body been found to verify when he died (except there is enormous circumstantial, historical and Biblical evidence to suspect when.) In my humble opinion.
I think there are a lot of things in Christmas that are not true and to me not true in ritual means pagan because pagan rituals are based on untrue beliefs.
It appears to me that Christianity has gone down a long ways when the non believers has to start bashing santa and his elvs and the reindeer.
It used to be that these satanists were just against the nativity scene.
If Christians really believe in the birth of Christ as told in the scriptures why don`t they go back to the native scene? or cut out ritual all together.
Jeremiah 10:2-4
Thus says the Lord: “Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move.
Look familiar?
It’s no more, or less, pagan than Halloween.
An explanation given to me, with no proof or biblical reference, but which I like because of it's symbolism, goes like this.
The world became darker as mankind drifted farther from God, much like nights get longer as we approach the winter solstice. More darkness and less light in each day as we approach the solstice.
But with the birth of Christ, His light shone for all and world became brighter, much like days begin to get longer after the winter solstice. More light and less darkness in each day.
I like the imagery.
The man doesn’t know history
Jesus wasn’t born in December. We could start there
You haul shrubbery in your house, cover it with junk, put offerings under it and claim it isn't pagan?
Besides, the date was never given in the text but allows anyone to glom on to and double down on various theories and to jump to conclusions if one is so inclined. Keeps sales brisk in the marketplace of religious insight so called.
180...
In the modern secular marketplace, there's a funny 'celebration' called Christmas in July, to promote sales and get people into the shopping spirit at the opposite time anyone would be thinking about Christmas (buying lots of stuff). It's beach time and sunflower season.
On one hand the concept is just plain goofy. OTOH, what kind of actual insight does the non-religious world telegraph [unwittingly] by advertising "Christmas in July", and for a purpose that has nothing to do with Christ.
It's a weird little world out there.
“Christmas in July”
Yes, there is a radio station here that makes a big deal celebrating Leon Day here on July 25 (”Leon” is “Noel” spelled backwards). They play pagan Christmas carols all day. Frosty the Snowman and all that. Extremely irritating.
>> I worked with a woman from Russia. She said that on Christmas they had a big pancake feast. The pancakes represented the sun. <<
Hokay... vaguely interesting, but this is evidence of something? Are you using this to dispute that Dies Natalis Sol predates Christmas? Because its invention is well attributed (A.D. 274, by Emperor Aurelian).
... and I should mention that Emperor Aurelian explicitly did so to counter Christianity, and that the only records of any celebration of Dec 25 occur between A.D. 354* and A.D. 376
(*It was this date I referred to as “three centuries after Christ”)
IF you have rituals around your tree where you give supreme and worshipful homage to Wotan, Baldur, Thor and Frigga, then yes, it's pagan!
Gosh, that was so easy.
Are you still talking?
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