Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 01/24/2022 8:26:55 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: SeekAndFind

Well said.


2 posted on 01/24/2022 8:31:44 AM PST by No name given
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
The OT is Scripture. It is just as authoritative as anything (if not more so) other than the NT.

Where the NT directly contradicts the OT, go for the NT passage. I'm thinking specifically about forgiveness, diet, etc).

If the NT is silent on a subject the OT has the final word.

3 posted on 01/24/2022 8:36:36 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux - The Ultimate Windows Service Pack )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

Marcionism was a heresy in the 2nd century the same as it is today


4 posted on 01/24/2022 8:40:11 AM PST by Bayard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The text makes many good points.

It is clear that at many points the scriptures are dealing with matters in the specific covenant between G-d and the Israelites, a two way covenant - G-d’s commitment to the Jews and a Jew’s commitment to honor it by following G-d’s commands to the Jew. I have often thought of the old testament Jews as not just “G-d’s chosen people” but in the old testament age as “the people who chose G-d”.


5 posted on 01/24/2022 8:45:56 AM PST by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The OT was never intended to apply to non-Jews, beyond what was given before Abraham.


6 posted on 01/24/2022 8:46:04 AM PST by jjotto ( Blessed are You LORD, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

Attempting to keep the Law, written on stone and those given to Israel will get you to the end of yourself. Of course, Jesus came to fulfill the jot and tittle of the law IOT to meet the Holy requirement of a Perfect Sacrifice to save those (all) condemned under the Law.

So, all of my efforts on my own to keep the law (to please the LORD GOD Almighty) are as filthy rags, as I have failed in some area, sometime, at least once, rather badly I may confess). But Jesus DID!

As we are told, the Law is holy, but we cannot meet its requirements, and if we try on our own strength, we make God a liar, and we deceive ourselves.

Jesus, the perfect unblemished Lamb, met the standard, exceeded it and in Him, I am the Righteousness of God. ALL MY Sin(s) (noun and verb) are completely washed away, separated as far as the east is from the west, thrown into the deepest sea, put behind the back of the Almighty and He, graciously, because of Christ, remembers my sins no more...

Therefore, I can live without fear of condemnation, but the life I live must be lived by the faith of Jesus, that God, through that faith (which raised Jesus) will justify, sanctify and glorify me one day in total.

Live by your effort to keep the law if you can, as you will be judged by it. Live by Faith in Christ and you will be accepted in the Beloved (Jesus).


10 posted on 01/24/2022 8:53:33 AM PST by Manly Warrior (US ARMY (Ret), "No Free Lunches for the Dogs of War" )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The Old Testament is amazing, rich, valuable, insightful, and necessary for gaining understanding about God’s holiness, our depravity, and His incredible rescue plan for us.

It’s also amazing that the thief on the cross is in Heaven with our Savior and he didn’t follow any of the Levitical laws, wasn’t baptized in water, never took communion, didn’t raise his had for an alter call, and never recited the sinner’s prayer.


19 posted on 01/24/2022 9:14:39 AM PST by mn-bush-man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The prohibition of mixing two fabrics only applies to mixing Wool and Linen together.


21 posted on 01/24/2022 9:17:15 AM PST by captain_dave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

I highly recommend this book:

Old Testament Theology for Christians

https://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-Theology-Christians-Enduring/dp/0830851925


23 posted on 01/24/2022 9:24:54 AM PST by cuban leaf (My prediction: Harris is Spiro Agnew. We'll soon see who becomes Gerald Ford, and our next prez.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The OT still applies? Cool. Now I have to break it to my wife that I’m going to marry a couple of her friends. Oh, and I think the girl down the street would make a nice concubine if I can agree on a purchase price with her father.


24 posted on 01/24/2022 9:27:30 AM PST by MercyFlush (DANGER: You are being conditioned to view your freedom as selfish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
In forbidding tattoos to Israel, God’s principle was: don’t resemble the world (Rom. 12:2) and/or possess any ‘marks’ (physical or otherwise) that link you to an ungodly culture and its false religions. Not a bad general reminder for us today.

Here's another OT verse along the axis of God's "don't resemble the world" principle: "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Deut. 22:5 To whom do button-fly pants pertaineth?

25 posted on 01/24/2022 9:46:45 AM PST by Ahithophel (Communication is an art form susceptible to sudden technical failure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

The Old Testament is composed largely of three kinds of writing: The Torah; the subsequent history of the Israelites and their relationship to God; and the prophets. Confusing one for the other will lead the uninformed to all sorts of misconceptions. And we know that it was written over a period of about a thousand years, so it naturally speaks with many voices, some of which plainly include myth and allegory as well as actual history. Not to mention poetry and song.


26 posted on 01/24/2022 9:48:59 AM PST by hinckley buzzard ( Resist the narrative.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
"Can the Word of God be Divided?"

It's simple and basic...

"The Old is revealed in the New, The New is Concealed in the Old."
32 posted on 01/24/2022 10:11:00 AM PST by MurphsLaw ("not hearers of the law are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
Supplemental:
The Bible is an ancient text. Like every other ancient text,...what we have are copies of the original which date to hundreds of years after their composition...For example, Julius Caesar chronicled his conquest of Gaul in his work On The Gallic War in the first century B.C. The earliest manuscript in existence dates to the 8th century AD.. So what are the oldest biblical texts discovered to date?
The Nash Papyrus...written in Hebrew and dating to the second century B.C. It was the oldest known biblical text prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls..It contains the 10 commandments from the book of Exodus, and the Shema Yisrael prayer
The Dead Sea Scrolls are a collection of over 900 manuscripts..including copies of every book of the Old Testament except for Nehemiah and Esther...The manuscripts date from the third century B.C. to the first century A.D., with some of the earliest, such as 4Q17 (4QExod-Levf), dating to the early Hellenistic era, approximately 250 B.C
The oldest biblical text is on the Hinnom Scrolls... rolled-up pieces of silver...they revealed the priestly Benediction from Num 6:24-26 reading, “May Yahweh bless you and keep you; May Yahweh cause his face to Shine upon you and grant you Peace...the oldest portion of Scripture ever found outside of the Bible...they provide evidence that the books of Moses were not written in the exilic or postexilic period
The 10th-century B.C. Khirbet Qeiyafa ostracon is similar to such Scriptures as Exodus 23:2, Psalm 72:4 and Isaiah 1:17..The Elephantine “Passover” Papyrus, dating to 419 B.C. almost certainly references the instructions for keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread found in Ex. 12:15 - https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/06/the-three-oldest-biblical-texts/
All of the books of the New Testament were written within a lifetime of the death of Jesus of Nazareth. Not so the so-called “other gospels,” which were pseudepigraphical Gnostic works written 100-300 years later. To date we have over 5800 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, with an astounding 2.6 million pages of biblical text.
While some of these manuscripts are small and fragmentary, the average size of a New Testament manuscript is 450 pages.. No other ancient text can compare with the New Testament when it comes to the sheer volume of manuscripts, nor when we consider how close the earliest manuscripts are to the originals.
P90 (P. Oxy. 3523), is a small fragment dated paleographically to the second century A.D...with portions of the Gospel of John (18:36-19:7)..Papayrus P104 ...a second-century papyrus fragment that contains Matt. 21:34-37 on the front, and traces of verses 43 and 45 on the back.
Scholars date the writing of Matthew’s gospel to the late 50’s or early 60’s in the first century...John’s gospel is dated to the late first century,
Papyrus P98 (P. IFAO inv. 237b [+a]) is a manuscript fragment...a biblical text coming from Rev. 1:13-20...copied circa A.D. 100-200, likely in Egypt.about A.D. 185, Irenaus wrote that the book of revelation was composed, “almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign...A.D. 81-96,”
The earliest..manuscript is the Ryland Papyrus P52... dated it from A.D. 100-150...[or later 2nd. c.] and contains parts of seven lines from the John 18:31–33 on the front, and parts of seven lines from verses 37–38 on the back.
we can see that the text of the Bible was being copied and widely circulated already in the second century A.D.
there are another group of manuscripts...Papyrus P137...to A.D. 150-250...there are six other manuscripts that are also dated to the 2nd or 3rd centuries..This brings the total number of possible second-century New Testament manuscripts to 11. - https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/

37 posted on 01/24/2022 11:08:32 AM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
NO.

This writer and others do not understand the distinction between and purposes of the two testaments. The OT was to bring man (all people, not just Jews), to the point of the NT, when the Old Law (only for Jews and proselytes, and an earthly kingdom) was to be put away (ended, no longer having any authority) and the New Law instituted (for everyone, with a spiritual kingdom). There is no conflict between the OT and NT--the loving spiritual NT is the fulfilment of and replacement for the unforgiving legalistic OT.

Jesus pointed out the difference between the OT and the NT, when he answered a question of which laws are the greatest (Matthew 22: 34-40). “Love God completely, and love your fellow man as yourself” was the (paraphrased) answer, because on those two basic principles “hang” (derive) all the Old Testament laws: Love God (have no other gods before me, rest on the Sabbath to remember God, for example) and Love Your Neighbor (do not commit murder, do not steal, do not covet your neighbors’ anything, for example). But now God commands men to worship and live, not by the letter of the law, not by Legalism, but “in spirit and truth,” that is, Spiritually, from the heart, from love for God, and not from blind obedience to rules and man’s tradition.

The legalistic specific 10 commandments and OT laws were replaced in the NT with spiritual, loving principles. “Don’t commit adultery” is now “don’t lust in your heart”, and “don’t commit murder” is now “don’t call your brother ‘fool’ .” Don’t tattoo your body is now “do not defile the temple of God” (abuse, hurt, etc. your body). No need to ceremoniously wash your hands before eating, because your entire life has been washed clean by the blood of Jesus. Don’t cut away your penile foreskin (circumcision) to show you are set apart for God, set your heart apart for God and show that by your life (be circumcised in the heart). There are no dietary or clothing proscriptions, but don’t eat anything that “offends” (compromises) your neighbors’ salvation, and dress modestly, so as not to draw attention to yourself or incite lust in others, for examples. There are no NT holy days, and the Sabbath does not have to be kept. In fact, the early NT church with the Apostles’ teaching and observances worshipped congregationally on the first day of the week, Sunday, rather than the Sabbath. Don’t tithe from your earnings, but give cheerfully, with forethought, and as you have prospered. And so on.

Understanding the OT helps us understand the nature of God and man and why God gave us his son for our ultimate sacrifice, but the OT has no authority whatsoever on us in terms of our being holy or justified. The OT is not how we gain, or lose, salvation. It is not how we must live daily. It is not the default rules for life. The study the OT, and it led us to Jesus and the NT, but it is the NT that we now must follow.

The OT is contrary to us, but the NT is the perfect law of liberty.

(I decided not to list all the many NT scriptures referenced in the above; Bible readers recognize them, and they’re easily searched out. This was to keep this response readable and shorter.)

40 posted on 01/24/2022 11:30:15 AM PST by Notthemomma ( )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind

Which of the Ten Commandments is okay to violate today?


42 posted on 01/24/2022 11:39:45 AM PST by lurk (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
Oh good grief, not this nonsense again. 2 Timothy 3:16,17 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

And as far as what laws apply to who is pretty clear to me. The ceremonial laws and ordinances (that pointed forward to the coming Messiah) are obsolete, the others are applicable. And if you just don't want to follow some (such as Sabbath keeping), then you are not grafting onto the True Vine.

43 posted on 01/24/2022 11:56:40 AM PST by BipolarBob (BipolarBob's your uncle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: SeekAndFind
What is interesting about the OT is how we think of it as a rule book, and it goes as

1. God tells us in Exodus 20:4 You shall not make for yourself an idol or a likeness of anything[c] in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth and then in Exodus 25 we have 18 Make two cherubim[d] of beaten gold for the two ends of the cover; 19 make one cherub at one end, and the other at the other end, of one piece with the cover, at each end. 20 The cherubim shall have their wings spread out above, sheltering the cover with them; they shall face each other, with their faces looking toward the cover.

2. We also have the command not to marry with the neighbouring tribes and yet we have Ruth, the Moabite woman who is in the genealogy of both David and Jesus. Ditto for Rahab, a Jericho woman and Bathsheba - note that "Bathsheba" isn't a name rather a description "daughter of Sheba" i.e. a Yemenite woman.

51 posted on 01/25/2022 6:08:38 AM PST by Cronos ( One cannot desire freedom from the Cross, especially when one is especially chosen for the cross)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson