Former Mormon lifts the lid on church's 'creepy' baptisms for the DEAD that sees children being put through 'traumatizing' ceremonies to 'save' those who have passed away

Daily Mail UK ^ | March 17, 2024 | Lillian Gissen

[Elsie]

Again, you know a lot about Mormons from anti Mormons and you’re not asking or listening with an open mind.

I know a lot about Mormons from their own published writings.

Ya ready to contend with me? D&C 71

[Tennessee Nana]

Kid dont send me any more PMs

I’ll answer you out here

Ive had 60 years of experiencing Mormons and their false religion starting with the Mormon female I worked with who ordered our boss to fire me and destroyed my belongings because a friend of mine invited her to come to church with us...

You see Christianity is a red rag to a bull for a Mormon and when a Christian invites a Mormon to church its equal to offering them fentanyl or some other objectionable suggestion...

Meanwhile the Mormon female had been sent on a ‘mission’ to coherse our extremely rich boss to join the cult and cough up 10% of her riches...

For 6 weeks I endured the Mormon females evil intentions which included turning my friends at work against me...

All I could do was go to my God (the Christian one) crying in bewilderment and enduring her abuse...

Finally she suddenly left and my boss asked me why I hadnt been to her house for dinner for weeks although she had told the Mormon female to tell me I was invited...

I told her that the Mormon female had said my boss didnt like me and didnt want me around...

My boss told me that the Mormon female had been lying and had left in a huff because I was still there and because she had failed to turn my boss and her husband from the Christian God to the false one..

My boss produced all the books and pamplets that the Mormon female had given her to read among them secret items and info that normal people never get to know about Mormonism...

That Mormon female had been doing a great sales job...going all out...she was hoping to land a big fish...

That one rainy afternoon at age 19 I learnt more about that strange new cult called Mormonism than many other people probably dont know or take years to find out..(new to me)

My God looked out for me that day He had heard my desperate prayers and He answered me...

He got rid of the Mormon female who was tormenting His child and He protected me by opening my eyes to the wickedness that is Mormonism...

The devil has some slick pitfalls for people and Mormonism is one of the slipperiest...

[Elsie]

Mormons are in fact Christians and read the Bible and teach the Bible...

You know, the way you've left out the Book of Mormon, the Doctrines&Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price might give one the impression that you do not put much stock in what THEY teach.

Do you have a QUAD or just a plain, KJV bible? (as long as it's translated correctly)

[Elsie]

...and accurately, too!

[Elsie]

I, however, have a white shirt.

(But I lack a nametag)

[fightin kentuckian]

I remember hearing all about that in monthly Mormon publications where we relate how to quash the infidels. Seem the Mormon Lady you had contact with was doing pretty good.

We’re still watching you. ;)

[Tennessee Nana]

your brown scapular

Is that like a hair shirt ???

[fightin kentuckian]

Most Mormons, including those in FR, do NOT support Mitt, or Flake, or Dingy Harry. The vast majority of Mormons are conservative and don not fall in line with just because someone is Mormon.

[Dr. Sivana]

You didn’t cite a source for your information in the main part of your response. The links at the bottom for “The Catholic Company” (whose parent company owns my former employer, TAN Books), are largely dead, or just link to pages to buy a scapular.

Your descriptions of various scapulars is largely correct, but not universally.

The Brown Scapular is by far the most widely worn scapular among Catholics. It does NOT have to be blessed to be efficacious (though you certainly CAN get it blessed). What is necessary is for the person wearing it to be enrolled (very short ceremony).

You can take your scapular off when showering, laundering, etc.

The roots of the Brown Scapular are based on a private revelation. From https://www.carmelites.com/history-of-the-scapular/ :

“Tradition tells us that in 1251, Our Lady appeared to the Prior General of the Carmelite Order, St. Simon Stock at Aylesford, England. In this apparition, Our Lady gave him what we call the brown Scapular… a garment that has become the symbol of the bond between Our Lady and the Order of Carmel.” [ . . . ]

“Our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, is very devoted to Our Lady and has a special place in his heart for the Scapular: “Through the Scapular, those devoted to Our Lady of Mount Carmel express their desire to mold their existence on the example of our Mother, Patroness, Sister, Most Pure Virgin, to accept God’s word with a purified heart and devote themselves to the zealous service of others.”

We wear Our Lady’s Scapular as a loving response. a “YES”! to her desire that we keep Jesus as the center of our lives and bring Him to others.”

No Catholic is obliged to believe in any private revelation (revelation after the death of St. John, the last Apostle living on earth). There is nothing in the private revelation against Church teaching.

[daniel1212]

We need it for everyone born before Christianity. The Holy Innocents killed by Herod along with some martyrs who were killed after conversion but before having an opportunity for Baptism (some were slain on the spot after simply saying "I'm with him") qualifies as a Baptism of Blood.

No: neither everyone born before Christianity needs baptism nor aborted infants or the like need baptism, but under the new covenant the culpable need the faith which baptism requires and manifests, and which signifies death to the old life and resurrection to walk in newness of life.

Yet baptism is never the cause of regeneration (though in some cases it can be the occasion) - much less the act itself, as Rome imagines it is, resulting in a false damnable confidence of being spiritual children of God.

The redeemed are those who have been spiritually born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:2-7) by effectual, penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating faith in the Divine Son of God sent be the Father to be the Savior of the world, (1 Jn. 4:14) who saves sinners by His sinless shed blood, on His account.

And the faith which is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) is that which effects obedience by the Spirit, (Rm. 8:14; 1 Ths. 1:3-9; Heb. 6:9, 10) and thus it is shown in water baptism (normatively, and by immersion) and following the Lord. (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27, 28)

Whom they shall go to be with or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb. 12:22, 23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17)

In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; Heb. 10:25-39) Glory and thanks be to God.

[Dr. Sivana]

your brown scapular Is that like a hair shirt ???

I am responding, because Elsie was quoting me.

The Brown Scapular is NOT like a hair shirt, the wearing of which is primarily a penitential act. It is a minor inconvenience, and unless you are allergic to wool, not uncomfortable. (If you are allergic to wool, you can get one encased in plastic.)

The primary purpose is as a devotion. These devotions are an aid to remind us of Christ's Love for us, and of His Sacrifice. So, when changing clothes, washing up, etc. it reminds us of our ultimate purpose throughout the day. Combine that with Grace before meals, morning and evening prayers, devotional reading including Scripture, various times to make the Sign of the Cross, etc., help those of us living in a non-Christian society to remind ourselves of who we are and Whom we are to serve.

None of these things individually are required by the Catholic Church but any of them can be embraced to suit your spirituality compatible with your state in life.

[Tennessee Nana]

Thank you Dr S

[daniel1212]

Mormons are in fact Christians and read the Bible and teach the Bible and pray to Jesus Christ and God the Father. And anyone who says different is a damn liar.

After I kept referencing the Bible in contrast to the god of Mormonism one angry Mormon told me that no one knew what the Bible was for 300 years, which also is an argument for oral tradition. The difference isthat instead of non-inspired RC writers being held as passing on the Deposit of Faith as defined by the RC magisterium (which invokes this tradition as rendering it possessing ensured veracity on different levels and degrees), Mormonism essentially claims this for its dictatorial “seer stone” Prophet and later successors.

But distinctive Mormonic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly God-inspired, substantive, authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels), which is is not that of the LDS Mormonic god, which is an exalted man, a man who became God, and had multiple wives, thereby begetting spirit children, with Lucifer and Jesus being spiritual brothers , and with full salvation being thru obedience to Mormonism.

• God the Father is a married exalted-man (a physical being of "flesh and bones") having completed the process of becoming an exalted being by obedience to the god over him. And may have had multiple wives, along with Christ on earth (1);

• having been a man like us) and with Jehovah-Christ being the brother of Lucifer (2);

• born to the exalted Man-God and his Heavenly Mother goddess (3);

• and who was born in Jerusalem in His incarnation (4);

• and with celestial marriage being required for the highest exaltation (5);

• in the tripartite Mormonic celestial kingdom (6);

• with their polygamous god, as Mormonic men and women evolve into being a god as did their father who begat them as spirit children, begetting spirit children themselves (7);

• while all the creeds of Christendom were declared to an abomination (8);

• since golden-plate, seer-stone Joe Smith (9) got it right.;

• Those who are ignorant souls including liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie (which some would relegate those who reject Mormonism as being) are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, remaining in spirit prison for 1,000 years after death before being converted and placed in ground-level of the celestial kingdom, while apostates no forgiveness live in eternal "Outer Darkness," torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. (10);

• Yet Mormonism claims to be the the Christian church of the 1st century, and in fact claims the Christian church was established as early as 147 B.C.) and that people were called "Christians" as early as 73 B.C. (11

In contrast, the Scriptures which Joe Smith and followers profanely invoke in order to give their lies an air of authority, states that,

God always was God, that "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God ." (Psalms 90:2)

God's essential nature is not that of flesh and blood, but spirit, for "God is a Spirit," (John 4:24) and "a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me [Christ] have." (Luke 24:39)

Christ existed from eternity, (whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting:" Micah 5:2)

through whom Lucifer was created, (Ezekiel 28:13; Jn. 1:1-3; Col. 1:16)

God, as the Father, Son and Spirit, created all things by Himself, without any Heavenly Mother or angels helping: "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone ; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself ." (Isaiah 44:24)

In His incarnation Christ was born in Bethlehem ) which Scripture specifically records and affirms. (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1, 2:5,6,8,16, Luke 2:4,15; John 7:42)

Angels are not married, and those in the resurrection will be as they are. (Matthew 22:30)

There are only two locations in Scripture now in the after-life , these being with God or in Hell, which souls therein are cast into the Lake of Fire. The next conscious reality for believers will be with the Lord, (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) while for the lost it is torment and eternal punishment relative to their sins and accountability. (Rv. 20:10-15; Matthew 11:20-24; 25:41,46; Luke 10:11-12; 12:48; Hebrews 10:28-29)

In summation, rather than Mormonism being the one true church, faith in the Mormonic gospel is that of faith in "another Jesus, whom we have not preached, "another spirit," "another gospel, (2 Corinthians 11:4) with its absurd and unScriptural teachings of its "apostles," with its Mormonic god, which is is an exalted man, a man who became God, and had multiple wives, thereby begetting the spirit children, with Lucifer and Jesus being spiritual brothers, and with full salvation being thru obedience to Mormonism. The preachers of which are accursed, (Gal. 1:8) this not being the gospel of the N.T. church, and thus faith in the Mormonic gospel will send one to Hell, and hear the terrible words warned of by the True Christ: “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23)

Meanwhile the Spirit is also described as being creator, Job 33:4) and as a person to whom lying to can result in death, (Acts 5:1-11) and believers are to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit, (Matthew 28:19) which also denotes oneness.

All of which means that either Christ and the Spirit is God by nature along with the Father and thus demand a doctrine of trinity, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; (Colossians 2:2) or that the Scriptures contradict themselves and blaspheme God.

Mormons can only wish their exalted man-God had the Scripture warrant for the Trinitarian understanding of God, but that is why they must exalt other writings as also being Scripture, with the Mormon church being the supreme authority.

Additional resources: Utah Lighthouse™ Ministry; The Bible Versus the Book of Mormon

1. LDS 5th President Lorenzo Snow: "As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be." Joseph Fielding Smith: "Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47). "‘God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens,’ and that men ‘have got to learn how to be Gods … the same as all Gods have done before.’ (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng&_r=1) Orson Pratt , "The Seer". October 1853. 1 (10):. Retrieved October 9, 2017. “If all the acts of Jesus were written, we should no doubt learn that these beloved women [Mary, and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene] were his wives. ... “ "Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. ... We have now clearly shown that God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in eternity by whom He begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus His First Born, " pp. 158 ,172 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_polygamy#Teachings_on_the_multiple_wives_of_God_and_Jesus)

2 Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. (Doctrine and Covenants 93:21.)

3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all human beings, male and female, are beloved spirit children of heavenly parents, a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng&_r=1)

4. born "at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers." Alma 7:10

5. Doctrine and Covenants 131:1–3; Gospel Principles: LDS Church 2009, pp. 219–224,272,277. "Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple. (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/06195_eng.pdf, p. 272) "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 269, August 19, 1866).

6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory#Celestial_kingdom

7. The Origin of Man & Organic Evolution (PDF). Rexburg, Idaho: Brigham Young University-Idaho. 2004. pp. 1–3: "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother ... [and are] capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God." (https://web.archive.org/web/20160805030919/http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/OriginOfMan.pdf); Doctrine and Covenants 131:7–8; https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng&_r=1; Marion G. Romney, "The Worth of Souls," Ensign, November 1978, p. 13.;

8 Joe Smith (1 April 1842), "History of Joseph Smith," Times and Seasons, Vol. 3, p. 748. (https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/9825); , Gospel Principles, p. 11; Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 2:48, quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 1976, p.132

9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seer_stone_(Latter_Day_Saints)

10. Gospel Principles, p. 272,294; Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–88, 103–6, 109 (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76.84,105-106?lang=eng),

11. Mosiah 18:17 "And they were called the church of God, or the church of Christ, from that time forward." Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come."

[daniel1212]

No: Mormons are NOT in fact Christians. See above, by the grace of God.

[Fuzz]

You know your post sounds just as loony to non Christians as Mormon posts sound to you, right?

[wgmalabama]

The Mormon church is pivoting to a more progressive church. It will be slow but come back in 10 years. Also my LDS family was all for mittens. It’s very odd.

[Elsie]

Somehow you have more rules to qualify as a Christian?

Amazing, coming from a person who considers THIS to be scripture:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

[Zuriel]

**but under the new covenant the culpable need the faith which baptism requires and manifests, and which signifies death to the old life and resurrection to walk in newness of life**

The passover in Egypt removed the hopelessness of never ending bondage. The choice to leave Egypt was then available. But which way? Was the Red Sea ‘baptism’ unnecessary, or was it real killer of torment?

Those that insist of water baptism being nothing more than symbolic are willingly ignorant of the power of water baptism in the name if Jesus Christ (the prophet like unto Moses).

God told Moses to turn the Israelites away from the obvious, well-traveled, route to the promised land, the cloud confirming it, leading to the Red Sea. It seemed ridiculous to the Israelites, then worse, a trap resulting in death by the persuing Egyptian army.

It was there, that by following Moses, all went “under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;” (2Cor. 10:1,2).

With its army destroyed there, Egypt no longer had any power whatsover over the Israelites.

The Son of God broke the hopelessness of bondage to sin at the cross. But choices must be made, and commandments followed, when told of this hope. At the end of each of the four gospels, Jesus Christ give commandments for conversion. Those commandments are shown being enacted for the first time in Acts 2:38.

Repentance is seen in Israel’s acceptance and obedience to the passover in Egypt. They could then please God, but had to come to him (at Sinai), and come there HIS way. But they had to be ‘buried’ (baptized) at the Red Sea to be purged of the nagging curse of Pharaoh’s army (a type of sin). The cloud over them is symbolic of Holy Ghost baptism.

It is interesting that, in reference to the whole breaking down of Egypt to free Israel, the word ‘salvation’ is finally used at the Red Sea (Ex. 14:13). And upon crossing the Red Sea, and the Egyptians destroyed, Exodus 14:30 says:

“Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians, and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.”

[Elsie]

http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/2011/01/free-republic-webmaster-jim-robinson.html

 

 

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Elie is a FR classic.

 

 

August 5, 2011 at 8:59 PM    <--- link

 

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...and he's still fighting the good fight.