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Priest's affidavit accuses late bishop
AP via North Jersey.com ^ | Wednesday, May 01, 2002 | JOHN CURRAN

Posted on 05/02/2002 7:48:10 AM PDT by history_matters

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To: Palladin
"Would you like to be our next Pope?"

That raises the question, What name would you suggeest JR take upon assumption of this high office?

101 posted on 05/02/2002 8:56:58 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: history_matters
God bless, HM. I pray that God will heal you in the times ahead.

patent

102 posted on 05/02/2002 8:57:19 PM PDT by patent
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To: neocon
Wow! What a beautiful post you wrote. It might be the first post on FR over 3 paragraphs long that I read word for word and wished it were longer.

For most of my life I wished I had a nice singing voice, but since I've lurked on FR, I've changed my mind - I wish I could write with clarity and meaning!

103 posted on 05/02/2002 8:57:33 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: Cvengr
Damage to the Catholic Church does not help on many of the important issues which face American voters. Orthodox, conservative Catholics have been strong supporters of limited government, tax reduction, pro-life, and other moral issues vital to the health of American society. Catholic and Evangelical Christians are part of the conservative coalition which has kept Al Gore out of power. They need vibrant religious institutions in order to promote the conservative message. Why anyone genuinely interested in the welfare of American society finds something positive when bad things happen to fellow conservatives is troubling.

That said, I do think that some needed conservative reform will take place in the Catholic Church in America. It's terrible that it took things this shocking and grotesque to get the cardinals', bishops', and Vatican's attention, but at least the focus has arrived to some degree.

104 posted on 05/02/2002 9:12:08 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: american colleen
Your posts are very well written.
105 posted on 05/02/2002 9:13:10 PM PDT by EODGUY
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To: history_matters
I was gone all day and came home to find that thread wherein you said good-bye. Its those like you that have helped me so much during these chaotic times when it seems that all but a few really get what is going on. I hope you will change your mind ,I can hardly bear to think of not seeing your wisdom and holiness expressed on these threads. I really do think all will be okay.God works in mysterious ways. Please keep in touch,actually please don't go away. Keep the Faith!!
106 posted on 05/02/2002 9:22:34 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: neocon; patent; sinkspur
when they need not provide anyone a forum for anything at all

I have contributed to FR and would assume that others on this thread have too. I will continue to do so as long as I am able (and as long as I don't get booted for being such a burr under the saddle, or "self pitying pouter," as some would have it). As contributing members of a forum do we have the right to make suggestions, or even complain at times?

This forum runs by the contributions of its members, right? As such, I think they do need to provide something for at least the contributors.

Or am I incorrect in assuming that most regular FReepers do donate?

107 posted on 05/02/2002 9:24:07 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
You make my point a bit.

It's not in the interest of conservatives nor Christians for such repugnance to occur. Yet, Christians and conservatives both tend to take a position of cleaning up the mess and returning to righteousness.

An adversarial position would naturally attack when the chips are down for their opponent. I'm not witnessing a constant unrelenting attack by the Adversary nor by unbelieving men against the Church, nor attacks by Democrats incessantly, where they may perceive it their advantage without risk.

This lack of attack is what causes me to suspect that perhaps the vice is more confined to a very limited number and the extent perhaps is less than alleged. Those guilty are ashamed and remain mute, the Church being conscientious to the obvious heineity remains steadfast, comes out against sin, but doesn't immediately throw out all the mid to upper echelon members accused, and those who oppose the church are actually attacking as far as they believe they might reach without risk.

Again, this is pure speculation, but discernment of character and nature of the persons involved seems to indicate there is more than what is evident.

108 posted on 05/02/2002 9:35:26 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: american colleen
Well, you certainly have good taste, :-), and that counts for a great deal. I suppose I shouldn't mention that I'm a cantor, trying to get my parish to use a bit more Gregorian chant. Very bad for the humility, don't you know?

But seriously, thank you for your kind remarks.

In regard to the current revelations - and I'm affected by them with some immediacy because I live in the Archdiocese of Boston, and attend a parish in the Diocese of Manchester (NH) - it must be pointed out that publications like The Wanderer have been pointing out these potential problems for years. Now, I'm of the opinion that a steady diet of The Wanderer gives an unnecessarily negative opinion of the state of the Church, but they seem to be right on this aspect of things.

We're also seeing everyone with an agenda on the right ("It's all because of the Second Vatican Council!") and on the left ("It's all because of the celibacy requirement!") within the Church, and our enemies without ("It's all because they're pagan idolators who don't know the Bible!" or "It's all because they're sexually repressed!") piling on. Moreover, some of the victims' allegations are fairly transparent attempts to cash in on an apparent bonanza, though I'm inclined to believe that most of them have some merit. So, as usual, it's difficult to get to the truth, which is probably that there's a significant problem, though not a universal one, which would be best solved not by radical changes to Church structure, but by the hierarchy exercising its legitimate authority with greater vigor.

There's a well-balanced article by E. Michael Jones on this issue that I will try to post tomorrow, but now it's time for bed.

109 posted on 05/02/2002 9:39:16 PM PDT by neocon
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To: neocon
Wonderful post. To quote the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen: "There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Roman Catholic Church; there are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church."
110 posted on 05/02/2002 9:43:01 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
[A]m I incorrect in assuming that most regular FReepers do donate?

My position on this subject is that I pay my dues in the insults I must endure. When that behavior stops, I will resume my financial support of FR. In the meantime, there are any number of Catholic charities more deserving of my generosity.

But since I do not donate to FR, I also rarely post. It's just a personal decision, really.

111 posted on 05/02/2002 9:45:02 PM PDT by neocon
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To: Cvengr
I do think (speculating here) that there is a diabolical element. The crimes and sins themselves (attacks on the sexuality, i.e., the reproductive identity, of children) were rightfully linked by the Pope to the "most grievous forms of the mystery of iniquity."
112 posted on 05/02/2002 9:47:01 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: goldenstategirl
[T]here are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church

Much as I hate to disagree with the good archbishop, whom I greatly admire, I've come to the conclusion that that are plenty who would hate us anyway. Bigotry is not a rational thing.

113 posted on 05/02/2002 9:47:51 PM PDT by neocon
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To: EODGUY
Dang! I had you marked for a smart guy!

Thanks, but honestly, I know what is in my brain and what I want to say, but somehow, it usually doesn't translate well to paper.

114 posted on 05/02/2002 9:50:46 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: history_matters
The one thing that this scandal makes clear is that your children are in danger of molestation whether it is Church school, family, friends.

Teach your children how not to become victims.
Teach them to talk to you about anything and everything even if it is uncomfortable for you.
Give them lots of love and attention so they don't need to find love and approval from others outside your family.
Supervise their activities and be as involved as you can be.
Know where they are at all times
Show up at odd times so no-one can ever be sure when you might show up.

Just a few things off the top of my head.

115 posted on 05/02/2002 9:58:32 PM PDT by tiki
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Of course, ..I agree with you that a diabolical element is involved.

Yes, much of it may be independent sin of man, not influenced by demon or angelic involvement. But for it to have gone on for a decade and for NAMBLA founders to have any association, sure tends to be too great a scandal for the Adversary not to have devised a more sinister strategy around the whole affair within high reaches of the Church.

If these sins were several bombs falling at Pearl Harbor, it's as if the Japanese Fleet made a simple flyover, dropped only 5% of their bombs and then returned to base and the command simply acknowledging an enemy in the area and conducting business as usual. Situations like these make me nervous.

116 posted on 05/02/2002 10:00:05 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: neocon
Thank you for another very good post. I live within the Archdiocese of Boston as well. I live south, nearer to the Cape and I take it you must live north as you attend church in NH. Do you ever attend the Tridentine Mass at Holy Trinity? I go for the Gregorian Chant and when I need a shot of the Catholic tradition. My parish is a modern building and the priest is a bit on the "liberal" side, although since all this evil has come out, I've noticed him going back to basics somewhat.

I hope you get the chance to post the article by E. Michael Jones, I look forward to reading it.

I just subscribed to "The Wanderer" and in fact, received my first copy a few days ago. I'd not heard of it until several posters mentioned it. This issue contained a nice column by Cardinal Fabian Bruskiewicz, now there is a man for our times! I pray for more like him.

117 posted on 05/02/2002 10:01:13 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: tiki
Hey! You read like Mom! ;^)
118 posted on 05/02/2002 10:02:00 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr
And the results - widespread confusion, division, aspersions directed at Catholics,etc. It feels wrong.
119 posted on 05/02/2002 10:07:04 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: american colleen
re: #117 The Wanderer

What I like about the give and take on FR is the exchange of information and resources. The sense of collegiality you see in instances such as this.

120 posted on 05/02/2002 10:09:42 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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