Does Hebrews 1:1-8 Teach that Christ is Almighty God?

Christology and the Trinity: An Exploration ^ | EMF Publishing 2001 | By Edgar G. Foster

[restornu]

I am LDS and don't totally agree with their concept but I do fine it interesting and felt others should know tha beside the LDS their are others out their that have a different point of view!

*I believe that God Almighty had a Son Jesus and that made him Father to Jesus, as well as he’s our Father.

*The Father asked us to do His Will on Earth as it is in Heaven.

*I Don't think the Heavenly Father wants us to be confused here, by a different definition on Father/Son on earth and another one in Heaven.

*I also believe in the Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Christology and the Trinity: An Exploration

[restornu]

CTR

[Some hope remaining.]

bump for later.

[Elsie]

let's see what I can find in the OT.............

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NIV Exodus 15:2
 2.  The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.

 

NIV 2 Samuel 23:5
 5.  "Is not my house right with God? Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part? Will he not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every desire?

 

NIV 1 Chronicles 16:23
 23.  Sing to the LORD, all the earth; proclaim his salvation day after day.

 

NIV 2 Chronicles 6:41
 41.  "Now arise, O LORD God, and come to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. May your priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, may your saints rejoice in your goodness.

 

NIV Psalms 9:13-14
 13.  O LORD, see how my enemies persecute me! Have mercy and lift me up from the gates of death,
 14.  that I may declare your praises in the gates of the Daughter of Zion and there rejoice in your salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 13:3-5
 3.  Look on me and answer, O LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death;
 4.  my enemy will say, "I have overcome him," and my foes will rejoice when I fall.
 5.  But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 14:7
 7.  Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the LORD restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

 

NIV Psalms 18:2
 2.  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.

 

NIV Psalms 27:1
 1.  The LORD is my light and my salvation-- whom shall I fear? The LORD is the stronghold of my life-- of whom shall I be afraid?

 

NIV Psalms 28:8
 8.  The LORD is the strength of his people, a fortress of salvation for his anointed one.

 

NIV Psalms 35:1-3

 

 1.  Contend, O LORD, with those who contend with me; fight against those who fight against me.
 2.  Take up shield and buckler; arise and come to my aid.
 3.  Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me. Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."

 

NIV Psalms 35:9
 9.  Then my soul will rejoice in the LORD and delight in his salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 37:39
 39.  The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD; he is their stronghold in time of trouble.

 

NIV Psalms 40:9-10
 9.  I proclaim righteousness in the great assembly; I do not seal my lips, as you know, O LORD.
 10.  I do not hide your righteousness in my heart; I speak of your faithfulness and salvation. I do not conceal your love and your truth from the great assembly.

 

NIV Psalms 40:16
 16.  But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, "The LORD be exalted!"

 

NIV Psalms 50:22-23
 22.  "Consider this, you who forget God, or I will tear you to pieces, with none to rescue:
 23.  He who sacrifices thank offerings honors me, and he prepares the way so that I may show him  the salvation of God."

 

NIV Psalms 51:10-12
 10.  Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
 11.  Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
 12.  Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

 

NIV Psalms 53:6
 6.  Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When God restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

 

NIV Psalms 62:1

 1.  My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.

 

 

NIV Psalms 62:5-7
 5.  Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him. 
 6.  He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 7.  My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.

 

NIV Psalms 67:1-2

 1.  May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, Selah
 2.  that your ways may be known on earth, your salvation among all nations

 

NIV Psalms 69:13
 13.  But I pray to you, O LORD, in the time of your favor; in your great love, O God, answer me with your sure salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 69:29
 29.  I am in pain and distress; may your salvation, O God, protect me.

 

NIV Psalms 70:4
 4.  But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, "Let God be exalted!"

 

NIV Psalms 71:15
 15.  My mouth will tell of your righteousness, of your salvation all day long, though I know not its measure.

 

NIV Psalms 74:12
 12.  But you, O God, are my king from of old; you bring salvation upon the earth.

 

NIV Psalms 85:7
 7.  Show us your unfailing love, O LORD, and grant us your salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 85:9
 9.  Surely his salvation is near those who fear him, that his glory may dwell in our land.

 

NIV Psalms 91:14-16
 14.  "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
 15.  He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him.
 16.  With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."

 

NIV Psalms 95:1

 1.  Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 96:2
 2.  Sing to the LORD, praise his name; proclaim his salvation day after day.

 

NIV Psalms 98:1-3
 1.  Sing to the LORD a new song, for he has done marvelous things; his right hand and his holy arm have worked salvation for him.
 2.  The LORD has made his salvation known and revealed his righteousness to the nations.
 3.  He has remembered his love and his faithfulness to the house of Israel; all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

 

NIV Psalms 118:14
 14.  The LORD is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation.

 

NIV Psalms 118:21-23
 21.  I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation.
 22.  The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
 23.  the LORD has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes.

 

NIV Psalms 119:41-42
 41.  May your unfailing love come to me, O LORD, your salvation according to your promise;
 42.  then I will answer the one who taunts me, for I trust in your word.

 

NIV Psalms 119:81
 81.  My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word.

 

NIV Psalms 119:123
 123.  My eyes fail, looking for your salvation, looking for your righteous promise.

 

NIV Psalms 119:155
155.  salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.

 

NIV Psalms 119:166
 166.  I wait for your salvation, O LORD, and I follow your commands.

 

NIV Psalms 119:174
 174.  I long for your salvation, O LORD, and your law is my delight.

 

NIV Psalms 132:11-18
 11.  The LORD swore an oath to David, a sure oath that he will not revoke: "One of your own descendants I will place on your throne--
 12.  if your sons keep my covenant and the statutes I teach them, then their sons will sit on your throne for ever and ever."
 13.  For the LORD has chosen Zion, he has desired it for his dwelling:
 14.  "This is my resting place for ever and ever; here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it--
 15.  I will bless her with abundant provisions; her poor will I satisfy with food.
 16.  I will clothe her priests with salvation, and her saints will ever sing for joy.
 17.  "Here I will make a horn  grow for David and set up a lamp for my anointed one.
 18.  I will clothe his enemies with shame, but the crown on his head will be resplendent."

 

NIV Psalms 149:4
4.  For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

 

NIV Isaiah 12:2
 2.  Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD, is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation."

 

NIV Isaiah 25:9
 9.  In that day they will say, "Surely this is our God; we trusted in him, and he saved us. This is the LORD, we trusted in him; let us rejoice and be glad in his salvation."

 

NIV Isaiah 26:18
 18.  We were with child, we writhed in pain, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth; we have not given birth to people of the world.

 

NIV Isaiah 30:15
 15.  This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

 

NIV Isaiah 33:2
2.  O LORD, be gracious to us; we long for you. Be our strength every morning, our salvation in time of distress.

 

NIV Isaiah 45:8
 8.  "You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the LORD, have created it.

 

NIV Isaiah 45:17
 17.  But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.

 

NIV Isaiah 46:12-13
 12.  Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
 13.  I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel.

 

NIV Isaiah 49:5-6
 5.  And now the LORD says-- he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength--
 6.  he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

 

NIV Isaiah 51:4-6
 4.  "Listen to me, my people; hear me, my nation: The law will go out from me; my justice will become a light to the nations.
 5.  My righteousness draws near speedily, my salvation is on the way, and my arm will bring justice to the nations. The islands will look to me and wait in hope for my arm.
 6.  Lift up your eyes to the heavens, look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever, my righteousness will never fail.

 

NIV Isaiah 52:5-7
 5.  "And now what do I have here?" declares the LORD. "For my people have been taken away for nothing, and those who rule them mock, "  declares the LORD. "And all day long my name is constantly blasphemed.
 6.  Therefore my people will know my name; therefore in that day they will know that it is I who foretold it. Yes, it is I."
 7.  How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

 

 

NIV Isaiah 52:1-15
 1.  Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.
 2.  Shake off your dust; rise up, sit enthroned, O Jerusalem. Free yourself from the chains on your neck, O captive Daughter of Zion.
 3.  For this is what the LORD says: "You were sold for nothing, and without money you will be redeemed."
 4.  For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "At first my people went down to Egypt to live; lately, Assyria has oppressed them.
 5.  "And now what do I have here?" declares the LORD. "For my people have been taken away for nothing, and those who rule them mock, "  declares the LORD. "And all day long my name is constantly blasphemed.
 6.  Therefore my people will know my name; therefore in that day they will know that it is I who foretold it. Yes, it is I."
 7.  How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!"
 8.  Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices; together they shout for joy. When the LORD returns to Zion, they will see it with their own eyes.
 9.  Burst into songs of joy together, you ruins of Jerusalem, for the LORD has comforted his people, he has redeemed Jerusalem.
 10.  The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.
 11.  Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing! Come out from it and be pure, you who carry the vessels of the LORD.
 12.  But you will not leave in haste or go in flight; for the LORD will go before you, the God of Israel will be your rear guard.
 13.  See, my servant will act wisely ; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
 14.  Just as there were many who were appalled at him -- his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness--
 15.  so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.

 

 

NIV Isaiah 56:1

 1.  This is what the LORD says: "Maintain justice and do what is right, for my salvation is close at hand and my righteousness will soon be revealed.

 

NIV Isaiah 59:20
 20.  "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,"  declares the LORD.

 

NIV Isaiah 63:1-8
 1.  Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? "It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save."
 2.  Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?
 3.  "I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.
 4.  For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.
 5.  I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm worked salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me.
 6.  I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground."
 7.  I will tell of the kindnesses of the LORD, the deeds for which he is to be praised, according to all the LORD has done for us-- yes, the many good things he has done for the house of Israel, according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
 8.  He said, "Surely they are my people, sons who will not be false to me"; and so he became their Savior.

 

NIV Jeremiah 3:23
 23.  Surely the [idolatrous] commotion on the hills and mountains is a deception; surely in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel.

 

NIV Lamentations 3:25-26
 25.  The LORD is good to those whose hope is in him, to the one who seeks him;
 26.  it is good to wait quietly for the salvation of the LORD.

 

NIV Jonah 2:9
 9.  But I, with a song of thanksgiving, will sacrifice to you. What I have vowed I will make good. salvation comes from the LORD."

 

 

 

NIV Luke 1:64-80
 64.  Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue was loosed, and he began to speak, praising God.
 65.  The neighbors were all filled with awe, and throughout the hill country of Judea people were talking about all these things.
 66.  Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, "What then is this child going to be?" For the Lord's hand was with him.
 67.  His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:
 68.  "Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come and has redeemed his people.
 69.  He has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David
 70.  (as he said through his holy prophets of long ago),
 71.  salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us--
 72.  to show mercy to our fathers and to remember his holy covenant,
 73.  the oath he swore to our father Abraham:
 74.  to rescue us from the hand of our enemies, and to enable us to serve him without fear
 75.  in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
 76.  And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
 77.  to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
 78.  because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
 79.  to shine on those living in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the path of peace."
 80.  And the child grew and became strong in spirit; and he lived in the desert until he appeared publicly to Israel.

---

And that CHILD was John, the Baptist. He 'prepared' the way for the Christ: Jesus of Nazareth.

[Catholicguy]

This paper will argue that Heb. 1:8 should be interpreted as a royal account that religiously delineates the kingly status of the risen and exalted Christ without attributing to him, full Deity. We will therefore begin by outlining the structure of Heb. 1:1-8 and discussing verse by verse how each unit of the text contributes to understanding Heb. 1:8

LOL O.K. And, after you are done trying to overthrow 2000 years of Christian Teaching, undertake a scientifc explanation that water really has only 1.3784 atoms of oxygen.

You'll be happy to know that verse 4 was seized upon by the Arians; ancient heretics. If we are going to have heresies, can't we at least have new ones?

I suggest this poor fellow get over himself and return to the Catholic Church and its exegesis which has sole authority to explicate the meaning of the New Testament - which, after all, only seems fair as she wrote it etc.

This method of exegesis sets out to disprove rudimentary Christian understanding. I guess some find that "fascinating."

To me, it would be like some scholar setting out to "prove" that adultery had nothing to do with "The Scarlet Letter," while ignoring the still living Nathaniel Hawthorne. The author of this unfortunate piece tries something similar - he tries to "teach" us about Hebrews while the TEACHING Church is still alive.

[restornu]

Hope all that work made you feel better we all have the same verses.

John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(Jesus and the Father are both divine, as well as the Holy Ghost)

Jesus is not His Father, and you are not are not your mother.

I truly don't believe that Heavenly Father has one definition in Heaven for the WORD, and another definition here on Earth for the WORD!

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven!

[Catholicguy]

There are 5 doctrinal sections in Hebrews that are generally sectioned this way; Christ's pre-existence, his divine condition and his activity as Creator (1:1-4) Christ's superiority over angels (1:2 - 2:18) His superiority over Moses (3:1 - 4:13) Christ's priesthood is on a level higher than the Levitical priesthood (4:14 - 7:28) Christ's sacrifice is greater than all the sacrifices of the Old Law (8:1 - 10:18) The Navarre Bible notes that many modern scholars divides Hebrews into these five parts - some take other approaches - but no Christian scholars say that Jesus is not God. If one desires an excellent and reliable exegesis of the New Testament, one can buy The Navarre Bible collection and avoid what was posted here.

Why sup from the brackish swamp of error and confusion when one can drink the limpid waters of truth?

[Elsie]

I am LDS and don't totally agree with their concept but I do fine it interesting and felt others should know tha beside the LDS their are others out their that have a different point of view!

---

I truly don't believe that Heavenly Father has one definition in Heaven for the WORD, and another definition here on Earth for the WORD!

---

I guess my question to you is..........

"What is YOUR definition of 'the Word'?"

---

Yes, we all have the same verses, so I'll do a little MORE work (it ain't that hard) and post a few more. As long as we are stirring the pot, let's do it BIG TIME......

NIV John 6:46
46. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

NIV John 14:6-11
6. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8. Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9. Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'?
10. Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

---

Let's throw out EVERYTHING the 'bible' says because John 6:46 and John 14:9 contradict one another!

[restornu]

I guess my question to you is..........
"What is YOUR definition of 'the Word'?"

All I am saying the definition/relationship of Father and Son means the same in Heaven as it mean to us here on earth.

As far as I am concern Jesus is God Almighty to us here, but he still is not the Father in Heaven.

I truly don't believe that God has one definition in Heaven for the WORD, and another definition here on Earth for the WORD!

Let's throw out EVERYTHING the 'bible' says because John 6:46 and John 14:9 contradict one another!

No where did I say this to you!

As long as we are stirring the pot, let's do it BIG TIME......

What are you talking about this is a discussion of an understanding of words!

Luke 3
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

1.Jesus being baptised present.

2.So here we have the Holy Ghost in a form of a dove present.

3.And the Heavenly Father speaking from heaven present.

Three seperate personages, all one in mind, but 3 individuals.

Philip 1
27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with bone mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

[BlackVeil]

That is a fascinating comparison of quotes - I had never noticed that before.

[vmatt]

What a sad state of affairs. Modern Christianity doesn't even know who the God they say they worship even is. Is there one, two or three? Two thousand years of "reformation" and Mary continues her amazing popularity. Let us make Jesus politically correct and call him her, our Godess's daughter. Observe, this thread will come to no conclusive answer after the word heresy is thrown around for effect and we have all displayed our particular colors. The message to the lost out there is really come back in about another thousand or so years and we will have this ironed out, not to worry.

[Elsie]

Observe, this thread will come to no conclusive answer after the word heresy is thrown around for effect and we have all displayed our particular colors.

---

Wow! You sure called THIS one right!!!

[vmatt]

Wow! You sure called THIS one right!!!

It is an unfortunate pattern taught me by the Christian Chronicles thread over the past months. It has defined my activities here to expose modern "Christianity" for what it really is a spin machine for the truth. Regardless of motivation or sincerity, Christianity is presenting such a contradictory and erroneous message to the lost that one must wonder if this is God's work at all. Any honest observation will prove that the fruits of this tree are division, strife, greed and ignorance. Here is the proof, they don't even know the God that they worship! Not to worry, Paul has a message for you all.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 3 1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

[Catholicguy]

Let's throw out EVERYTHING the 'bible' says because John 6:46 and John 14:9 contradict one another

What contradiction? Do you really think John was confused, contradictory? I find it difficult to imagine others think the Word of God is contradictory....

[Elsie]

What contradiction? Do you really think John was confused, contradictory?

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NIV John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

NIV John 14
9. Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'?

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Oh, these statements are the SAME??

[Elsie]

What are you talking about this is a discussion of an understanding of words!

 

Ok, let's discuss words...............

KJV Matthew 12:36-37
 36.  But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
 37.  For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

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In a revelation given by Joseph Smith the Mormon people are exhorted to "confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest."

(Doctrine and Covenants 71:7)  

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/whitehorseprophecy.htm

 

---

 

"...gave instructions to try those who were preaching teaching or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives or this law - Joseph forbids it. and the practice thereof. No man shall have but one wife"

(Joseph Smith Diary, Oct. 5, 1843, Church Historical Department)

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Sermon Delivered at Nauvoo, Illinois July 19, 1840  http://www.math.byu.edu/~smithw/Lds/LDS/Parallel/1840/19Jul40.html

Now let all who can coolly and deliberately dispose of their property come up and give of their substance to the [poor?] that the hearts of the poor may be comforted and all may worship god together in holiness of heart Come brethren come all of you.And I prophecy in the name of the Lord that the state of Illinois shall become a great and mighty mountain as a city set upon a hill that cannot be hid and a great that giveth light to the world The city of Nauvoo als[o] shall become the greatest city in the whole world. (We are still waiting................)

 

http://www.souldevice.org/mormonprophecy.html 

[Catholicguy]

I take it you think there is a contradiction. Ok, explain HOW the Word of God is contradictory

[Elsie]

You baffle me!

Right in front of your eyes, John reports that Jesus says than NO one has seen God.

And just 3 chapters later, he reports Jesus saying that they HAVE seen God!

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And YOU do NOT find this contradictory??????????

[restornu]

Elsie (Trying to throw sand in my eyes to avoid what I have posted!)

I guess Phillip 1- means little to you!

Philip 1
27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with bone mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

There is plenty of dirt you can drag up on the LDS and each of those who have spread this stuff have been shown to be liars and decievers that distort the word and twist and folks who like gossip eat it up along with the backbitters, it part of their nature which is not of the Lord

Now what you have done has nothing to do with what was posted in the relationship of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost

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To: Elsie

I guess my question to you is.......... "What is YOUR definition of 'the Word'?" All I am saying the definition/relationship of Father and Son means the same in Heaven as it mean to us here on earth.

As far as I am concern Jesus is God Almighty to us here, but he still is not the Father in Heaven.

I truly don't believe that God has one definition in Heaven for the WORD, and another definition here on Earth for the WORD!

Let's throw out EVERYTHING the 'bible' says because John 6:46 and John 14:9 contradict one another!

No where did I say this to you!

As long as we are stirring the pot, let's do it BIG TIME......

What are you talking about this is a discussion of an understanding of words!

Luke 3
21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

1.Jesus being baptised present.

2.So here we have the Holy Ghost in a form of a dove present.

3.And the Heavenly Father speaking from heaven present.

Three seperate personages, all one in mind, but 3 individuals.

9 posted on 5/9/02 12:33 PM Eastern by restornu
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[restornu]

(We are still waiting................things are starting to return!)

Sacred Stone: City for Sale

Nauvoo Illinois Temple

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Nauvoo Reborn
Posted by Utah Girl May 4 10:38 PM with 9 comments

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The Salt LakeTribune | 5/2/2002 | Peggy Stack Fletcher For Sale signs dot the landscape of this town on the Mississippi River -- offering not only Mormon pioneer homes but 1950s ramblers, pizza parlors and an abandoned building to the highest bidder. That buyer is usually a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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The Deseret News | 5/1/2002 | Carrie A. Moore
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(Nauvoo) Temple impact reaches far
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The Deseret News | 4/30/2002 | Carma Wadley
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