Posted on 12/28/2009 7:57:43 AM PST by dagogo redux
Having respect for a great deal of the diverse and well-informed opinions found on FR regarding political matters, I am curious to know your thoughts about the following, which, for me, is distilling out as a key question.
The undercurrents in the chronic tension between the Left and Right in this country are growing ever more ominous recently.
On one side, there is open talk of rebellion, drastic civil disobedience, armed revolution and civil war. Once confined to a few odd websites, is now plentiful all over the internet. And if I am not mistaken, this on-line sample represents the mere tip of an iceberg of enormous proportions in our general off-line population as well.
This is then complimented and fed by such Left-leaning news as the suspension of the Posse Comitatus Act, diplomatic immunity for Interpol, and the wholesale assault on such Constitutional and founding principles as checks and balances, limited government with enunciated powers, sovereignty, capitalism, and the individual God-given liberties enshrined in the Bill of Rights.
My question is: What is going on in the minds of those on the Left, especially the national and global power brokers behind the Left, that they persist in pushing their agenda so forcefully despite where this looks likely to end?
I find it hard to believe that they do not know where this is heading if they persist in their attempted Communist coup of this country. And yet they persist.
I find it hard to believe that they think they can get away with this without violent consequences of such enormity that no one of sound mind would risk them by persisting. And yet they persist.
I find it hard to believe that they underestimate the size and determination of the forces they are awakening as they persist. And yet they persist.
Are they really too ignorant or too blinded by their ideology to see where this is headed? Or do they see it, but cannot help themselves? Or do they see it, but believe they can prevail, and that even the bloodiest of means justify their ends?
I know many here still believe this will likely end peacefully, either through conservative political triumph, or through capitulation to tyranny on the part of a soft and apathetic citizenry. I know others will consider any violent acts personally reprehensible no matter what, and would never consider that sort of resistance. I’m aware of those viewpoints, but they are not what I’m looking for here.
In addition, I personally am not interested here in brief, flippant or humorous answers, though you are certainly free to do what you want.
There are many here who have given these matters a great deal of reasoned thought, or have inside knowledge about the various factors at play. Answers from people like that are what I’m after.
Also, I believe Mao’s government killed more than 60 million people.
Whenever I ask a Lefty what they plan to do once their Utopic Government is in place they always respond with “Oh I want to be a Poet” or author etc.. They never respond with a hard working type employment like “Oh I’d like to work in the salt mines”. They have this vision that one day they will wake up, fly their Unicorn to the Green Energy plant where they make electricity out of Pixie farts.
The liberals I work with were astonished to recently hear me say “Obama is a very wicked man.” They shrugged my comment off as delusional and went right on agreeing with each other.
“Also, I believe Mao’s government killed more than 60 million people.”
The real numbers are hard to say, but the figure of 30-40 million is pretty well repsected. Many of the heaths were brought about by famine, so while it is true they were “killed” that is almost too kind a way to express what Marxism did to the people.
I often wondered why the German people allowed Hitler to gain control and ruin Germany. I never expected a one sentence answer ---
" ... Silence in the face of evil is evil itself. God will not hold us guiltless, not to speak is to speak, not to act is to act." -- Dietrich Boenhoffer, a German pastor who stood against the Nazis.
I believe the answer to your question ultimately boils down to one very simple distinction made in the mind of any given individual, followed by the conclusion made therefrom. Anything past that 2-phase process is just a matter of degree of activism.
You either believe in the set of Constitutional principles or you don’t. You either believe that the principles embodied therein, including rule of law, rights, and the civil society are the foundation for what we have and what we have achieved, or you don’t.
If you so believe, and maintain that those principles are still valid even if the country is in a wounded and very uncomfortable state, and that a “reinstatement” of those principles is fundamental to the restoration of the country we are used to or used to live in, then that’s how you feel.
If on the other hand you think America is a big smelly rat and that we’ve gotten what we’ve gotten by abusing the less fortunate and trampling the rights of others down thru history, then you probably want to throw out our founding docs and start a new course based on diversity and equality and love for mother earth and blah blah blah. Maybe you have principles, but they are an amalgam of things and ideas drawn from “diverse” sources...anything *but* the Constitution.
And I think it just boils down to that.
They persist because they want a war in our great country!
They think they are stronger. That of course is their
downfall. Good will rule out over evil.
There has always been a class of people with a small amount of talent that have always craved power. You have probably worked with some. The ones who suck –up for promotions, even at little financial gain, just to lord over the more talented works. The ones who work diligently to “Save the Whales” while their home is a shambles and their kids live on peanut butter. But, this gives them a huge since of superiority which is what they crave, much like a sex addict, and the will go to extreme lengths to satisfy this urge. But, just like the character in “Silence of the Lambs”. They know they must hide their warped cravings or face exposure for what they truly are, and they are very good at this. That is why they must control every aspect of society especially information. One of the greatest give-a-ways to these people or groups is “Projection”. They all use it. The French “Committee of Public Safety” accused anyone that disagreed with them, the Communist accused the bourgeoisie , The Nazi’s accused the Jews, and the current crop of power seekers are accusing American traditionalists, free markets, and of course, capitalists. They create this huge straw man to “Save the People” or “Save the Country” or “Save the World”. But what they want is power, privilege, and wealth with no accountability to anyone, and that is why they hate real democracy and Constitutional Government.
It's a five-minute history lesson and a call to action. The bottom line is that those who would rule us now would rather rule in Hell than leave the rest of us alone to live in peace. Even if it means ruling from atop a stinking heap of rubble and corpses. The death of millions - even bilions - is not to large a price to pay for these monsters to achieve their goals. If that seems extreme, well - they've said as much. And history, godawful bloody history is my witness.
If we want to avoid that fate, then there is only one way this can end. Read the speech and decide for yourself.
Because they believe they can win.
Precisely. The elites believe this is a bluff, and expect that conservative and libertarian citizens will be as impotent and submissive as the GOP has been.
The spear carriers actually want it to happen, in order to finish the job, as they see it. Look for their comments in more pop culture venues such as youtube and their own sites. Utopia does not brook dissent.
Odd, isn't it? The elections since 1992 have all been very close. So, Liberals can't expect to have much more than 50% of the country.
And they know that they (mostly) don't have guns. We do.
And they know that they get a lot of support from the poor, the sick, the elderly, the downtrodden, the unemployed in the inner cities. And they seek to use these people as a power base?
They dispise the military. And they know that our numbers are swelled with veterans.
Why on Earth would the Left feel ready to take us on in a fight? But it does seem like thet are itching to do so. I fall back on my belief that they don't especially care about winning -- they just want to destroy our society. A civil war (even if they lose and die) would quite possibly do that. They do the devil's work and I think the cowards would even risk a losing fight to do their master's bidding.
Bottomline: it’s all about those among us that cannot find their way through life in America.
Actually, to one degree or another Conservatives want most of the same things that Liberals want to accomplish - even the playing field, help those that need help; therefore the two sides are not that far apart. It’s all about how to accomplish these and other goals that separate the two camps. Conservatives have a leg up approach, Liberals have a hand out approach - including more and more government entitlement, enforcement and compliance programs. So, it’s more about ‘process’ and the power to control the process that achieves goals.
The notion that Conservatives will end up performing violent acts to stop Liberals from taking over life as we know it in America is simply silly - loading up on weapons and ammo is simply silly although having few guns and ammo is a good thing. Americans will either step into this mess in 2010 (mid-term election) or not and terminate the flow of Liberal programs finally in 2012 or not.
All the chatter here is important but only as it relates to actual votes in 2010 and 2012. We need to constantly increase the drumbeat.......
It’s been a while since I have been to Prof. Rummel’s Death by Government site. I thought I read 60 million.
I may have misread it.
In either case, living in China during Mao must have been absolute He11!
I think faucetman’s answer is getting warmer....
Quite simply we are reaping what we have sown, and while many of us are outraged and we act out our frustrations with political activism, forum participation, prayer and “prepping”, the real answer is to be found in God’s Holy Word.
This world is becoming more wicked, we ourselves engage in activities which would have been regarded as sin only a few decades ago.
We know that our leadership whether intentionally or not is leading this nation down a path of destruction, and obeisance of the U.S. eventually to a “World Order” or one world government (look at the sovereignty which is quickly eroding) and while we would fight tooth and nail deep inside we know it will eventually happen because it is prophesied.
I am not advocating sitting back and waiting for it to happen, rather seek Him while He may be found; teach your children about Him, live wisely. Knowing God in these times will make anything that comes upon us easier.
Because Liberals believe they are successfully implementing a Coup. To them, it is a historical event to have a far left revolutionalry in the white house, and liberals think the people will accept it when it is done.
Once I learned the workings of the Federal Reserve, the root of the problems of our world suddenly came into sharp focus. Make no mistake. The Federal Reserve System does NOT foster a free market. It is not capitalism.
The Federal Reserve System is fraudulent by design. Simply put the Federal Reserve creates money out of nothing and loans it at interest to the government. It does this through the smoke and mirrors of selling treasury bonds. Money comes into existence when the government borrows it. At the moment money is created, interest is owed. That means at all times there is more money owed than is in existence. Fractional reserve banking is a hallmark of the Federal Reserve System. Loaning fractional reserves allows banks to exponentially create more money out of nothing. Under the Federal Reserve System money is debt. It makes no sense to talk about paying off the national debt because if we were to do so, there would be no federal reserve notes in circulation.
The erosion of the value of the monetary unit is yet another hallmark of the fiat Federal Reserve System. The dollar is worth 4 cents compared to its value in 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was enacted. Those of us who must work for a living constantly see the value of our savings erode while we pay interest on money we borrow to buy homes, cars, etc. A bank loans 90+% of its reserves. Through a simple accounting entry loaned money comes into existence and the borrower, usually through his own labor, pays back the principal of the loan as well as interest accrued.
The money changers create money out of nothing, which they loan at interest, while the rest of us must work for it. This is the reality of the design of the Federal Reserve System. The TARP legislation rammed through congress in 2008 just adds insult to injury. These same bankers who feast at the top of the money chain received trillions for nothing while the rest of us as taxpayers are on the hook for the interest on the money borrowed by the government to give to these too big to fail banks. And to whom are we paying the interest? The same banks that got the bailout.
While millions lose their homes, savings, and livelihood, the money changers are using their monopoly on creating money out of nothing to buy up the world’s real assets. They are creating a neo-feudal world government. For how long will they succeed?
In the final analysis to whom does the wealth of the nation belong? (By wealth of the nation I mean to whom do the possibilities of the land belong?) Does it belong to those who have inherited it? To those who have been given it by those in power? Or to the forgotten Americans who have produced it all by their labor, by the very sweat of their brows? Its clear to those of us paying attention that a small group of global oligarchs is working to undermine national sovereignty and gain control of the world. They do this in large part by controlling the world’s money supplies through the world’s central banks including the IMF and World Bank. Clearly these are the wastrels of the NWO. The stage is set for a new American revolution.
The problem is in not directing any revolutionary effort into what the New World Order conspirators wish us to. The Lords of Misrule are also the Lords of Misdirection. These wastrels are in fear. Who do they fear? A United States. For with the polarization and sectarianism in politics in America they would gain cover - and we would both destroy ourselves (our access to goods, food, shelter) - we would see riots ans savagry as race and sect rise against each other and we would inadvertantly LAUNCH the New World Order at the same time - for once the light from “the city on a hill” has gone out, they will step in and take over completely. If revolution comes, it will be at their bidding through a divide and conquer tactic. Beware!
I’ve been wondering, with the examples of non-violent revolutions around the world, why people are assuming that the next one will be violent.
Because a sizeable plurality of the nation would not know what to do if they cannot continue to live off of the labor of others. Because the level of social and economic coercion the left seeks cannot be enforced without a Jacobin or Bolshevik style of terror, or maintained without a police state. Because the majority of the population rejects this governance and is well armed and teeming with skills and information.
It could fall apart peacefully, as did the USSR. There was no guarantee THAT would dissolve with relatively little bloodshed though. There is every bit as much likelihood that we may endure turmoils similar to those of Romania and the former Yugoslavia.
I don’t think anyone believes in freeand fair elections turning it around. This may be unduly pessimistic though, or they would not have been so bugstomped in Virginia and especially New Jersey.
My dad always counseled to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I miss him.
I believe that the modern Left is a combination of Anarchism, Communism, and Fascism.
Agreed. I would add a distinctly American element too.
Apostate Puritanism. The left holds a determined and arrogant faith in the State.
You are quite correct. Like oil and water.
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