Posted on 06/13/2012 6:05:21 PM PDT by Grig
This may be the post that gets me zotted, and if so, so be it, but it would be a nice sign of respect for free speech, and just plain old maturity if that doesn’t happen. I won’t lose sleep either way though.
All through the Clinton years FR played a key role in helping me really come to appreciate the wisdom of the founding fathers as Clinton violated their principles in so many ways. I found here a large community of wise, informed posters from a diverse background that added depth and clarity to the news of the day. It was here on FR that I found out about the WTC attack. Being Canadian, the second amendment always seemed kind of silly to me, but through FR I learned how wrong that view was and now wish my country had such a right for it’s citizens.
That was then, now more and more it has felt like FR has dwindled into an insular, nearly feral, group of political and religious thought police whose mission is to ferret out anybody who doesn’t fit their orthodoxy and get rid of them, while propagandizing against anything the disagree with. At times it feels more energy is spent attacking those who should be seen as allies rather than the true enemies. I used to spend a fair bit of time here each day, now perhaps a quick look once every few weeks because of this change in climate. I know many have left because of it, many have already posted their concerns about it, and their wise observations and suggestions have fallen on deaf ears.
I do feel I have a small measure of responsibility for the change (but no guilt). When FR started to fail to live up to it’s own rules about not bashing religions (when it came to my religion) we Mormon posters decided that instead of being party to the creation of long threads filled with contention that made it hard for the moderators see the difference in our behavior and theirs, we decided instead to simply post articles putting forward our position and leave the critics to show their true colors. (see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2013341/posts). Not only did the anti-Mormon posters oblige us and demonstrate the level of hate and bigotry in their hearts, but so did the anti-Momons within the leadership of FR. And thus began the decent of FR from a vibrant ad-hoc conservative think tank into an echo chamber of yes men with a loud group of religious bigots leading the way. It is sad to see it come to this, and I hope that the day comes when sanity returns. Something that needs to happen for that day to come is for the majority of people around here to face this reality: If you are not supporting Mitt Romney, you are playing into Obama’s hands. Any hopes of a brokered convention or third party conservative super-candidate are nothing but delusions fueled by a denial of reality. It comes down to either Mitt or Obama, and if you are not supporting Mitt you are helping Obama. Deal with it.
And don’t try to hide behind the idea that Mitt losing will be good in the long term for conservatism. That is putting your partisanship above your patriotism. Obama has done massive damage to the USA, and if you give him another 4 years you may not have a USA left at the end of his term. What good will this theoretical transformation of the GOP then? Truth is that if Mitt loses, no matter how conservative or liberal his campaign and policies are, the media will blame it on him being too right-wing and drive the GOP to the left as much as they can. Also, the good of the country should come first if you want to call yourself a patriot, and having Mitt in the White House will be much better for the USA than having Obama there.
While Mitt is not perfect (nobody is) I find many of the attacks on him so over the top, so full of exaggeration and fear mongering that ignores contrary evidence or any sense of proportion that I can’t help but suspect they hyperbole is just a mask for darker motives. The fact that in many cases these attacks come from those who also display great hostility towards Mormonism says it all. Deny it all you want, it is easy to see. For a satirical look at it, check this video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG68yz-mMgE
I am going to make some predictions I would like to make, and I hope this thread stays around so that in years to come you can all look back and see how it turned out:
- every conservative you respect will vote for Mitt, all of them (perhaps a couple excepts, but not many) will even endorse him and perhaps campaign with him
- Mitt will become the next POTUS in a landslide victory,
- President Romney will do very well on the economy and on foreign affairs/national security
- President Romney will conduct himself with honor and integrity both in office and in his personal life
- He will be a better president than either Bush was
- You will hear conservative pundits call him this generation’s Ronald Reagan, or Ronald Reagan’s 3rd term or something along those lines
- President Romney will be re-elected in another big victory
- His Vice President will become POTUS after his second term
- If there is an assassination attempt on him, it will either be by the Chineese, or by some religiously motivated nutjob (Islamic or Evangelical)
And for those of you anti-Mormons out there, I have some prediction for you too. And these apply even if Romney is not elected as POTUS:
- Your grandchildren will call Mormons Christians, and look at Mormonism as the third branch of Christianity alongside Catholicism and Protestantism
- All the attacks against Romney that stem from the anti-Mormon garbage you have bought into will result in the attacker either apologizing, or in their loss of credibility. The more anti-Mormon attacks are made in the mainstream media, the worse the attackers will look.
- Your grandchildren will likewise look at such attacks as being as bigoted and wrong, even when they come from you.
- Some of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren will become Mormons, and after you are dead they will have temple ordinances performed for you, and you will be glad at the time that they do.
I dare you to post your own predictions of what a Romney presidency will result in.
I dare FR to leave this thread open and available for comments and to not delete a single comment from it.
I dare FR to start respecting freedom of religion by not playing favorites towards one religious group as is currently done by disallowing Mormon caucus threads, and if that is too big a challenge for you, the do away with the Religion Forum altogether.
I dare you all to give Mormons and Mormonism the respect it deserves to have as the 4th largest denomination in the USA, stalwart defender of traditional values, glowing example of Christian charity at home and around the world, the most conservative people of all religious groups, and staunch defenders of the principles of the constitution and values that built the country. No matter how much you disagree with us on religious matters, we are and should be treated as valuable conservative allies. Until FR does that, all they do is shoot themselves in the foot.
I think some of the Catholics thought it was really over the top for him to suggest it was likely an Evangelical would assassinate Romney.
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It was interesting to me that Grig claimed this. I have YET to find a single LDS person who has been executed, or received death threats because they were LDS. The LDS claims persecution but the best that they can come up with is Sandy’s claim that she knew a LDS missionary who had a cup of water thrown on her in Germany.
OTOH, I have received death threats from the LDS. Many others in ministry to the LDS (aka ‘antimormons’) receive them almost daily and have also received bombs - Sandra Tanner, Shawn McCraney, Rocky Hulse and others. Now this is not persecution like Christians around the world face, but it does show that the LDS are more likely to threaten or resort to violence than any Christian who devotes their time and talents to countering the claims of the Mormon church.
But I am sorry the Wizard of Oz flying monkey bit seems to have traumatized you so. I understand it is not uncommon when very young children see them in the movie. Seems to stick with them into adult hood...
But I am sorry the Wizard of Oz flying monkey bit seems to have traumatized you so. I understand it is not uncommon when very young children see them in the movie. Seems to stick with them into adult hood...
But I am sorry the Wizard of Oz flying monkey bit seems to have traumatized you so. I understand it is not uncommon when very young children see them in the movie. Seems to stick with them into adult hood...
First hatred against anyone.
Second hatred against mormons.
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(throws water at you) *hattip to Saundra Duffy*
Hey just because you don’t have any friends interested in the same things you are doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t share...
Why you ask?
Because we are at the local pub eating and drinking discussing who’s going to say what next.
So we agree what the theme is going to be them we pummel liberals until they explode and get zotted.
How do yo not know that?
It was addressed to another guy.
Due to my research into the COFB a serious investigation was done in the area to see if that could have been something directed at me, but with cover.
Locally the folks there think anything is possible when it comes to Mormons, jack mormons, culties and bombs. Guess it's a piece of dirty linen uphill from SLC.
Regardless, it has nothing to do with the bashing of the Mormon faith that is so rampant here, and that was the main point of the OP.
I'll reiterate that it is wrong, and should go away. Argue the merits or faults of religion on the Religion Forums and quit denigrating Romney's religion to make it a more effective political tool against him.
It's already been pointed out that that is a Democrat tactic, not one worthy of FR.
Good night.
The LDS church renounced polygamy in 1890. Current Mormons that practice polygamy face prison time.
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Fail on both parts. The LDS issued a manifesto where the prophet stated HE would abide by the laws of the land after the US gov’t unincorporated their church.
Most LDS still practiced it until the 1930’s (when they issued a second manifesto) and there are still a couple of ‘sister wives’ active in the LDS church. Also, they have never renounced the doctrine, still keep the revelation in their scriptures and most LDS are looking forward to it being reinstated. I also know 2 LDS families that are good LDS but are secretly polygamists, but it is rare.
Second, no Mormon recently has gone to prison or jail for polygamy. Utah REFUSES to prosecute on polygamy charges (as recently as last week).
You really don’t know much about Mormonism, do you Hun?
So does that mean you want the LDS to be topic verboten even on the religion forum, because as we have seen Mormons don’t separate themselves from their faith very well...
Romney is a liberal.
Romney is a mormon.
The two can not be separated from each other.
Just like you beleive politically what you beleive.
Just like you beleive faith what you beleive.
Just like you the two can not be separated.
gotcha. I apologize.
Ignorance of Mormonism seems to common with LDS “experts”...
I fight my own battles, I don’t need an echo chamber.
I also came to FR for debate, not to stifle it.
Something you might consider.
Just go back and look how often ya’ll flood a thread to shout down something you don’t like. It just makes you look like a bunch of thugs.
Later.
I still stand on my accusation, and anyone that is on the zot ping list can go back and see. All you have to do is look for it.
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If it is so easy then you should have no trouble posting links to where we did this.
You cannot because it isn’t true.
Why do you ping so many to individual posts? ALREADY ANSWERED YOU.
What reason other than to overwhelm? NO, AND AGAIN ALREADY EXPLAINED THAT TO YOU
Why can’t your cabal argue your points as individuals? Of course we can, and we do, but we also like to share the wealth and info.
And we are not a ‘cabal’ because we are not secret. Do I need to buy you a dictionary?
I am frankly amazed how every single statement you have made here is factually or logically incorrect. Impressive that you are so completely wrong all the time.
And we all see how you "fight your own battles" We monkeys "fly in" with facts and ping each other to share the debate, if you have read this threads you are crying about you would see we also bring our own arguments. This is the core of conservative debate. Numbers are irrelevant if ones counter argument is strong and valid.
If not, it is not uncommon to see a poster turn to insults and such for cover. You know the kind of things that demonstrate an empty hand and bring on the zot from time to time ...
Because we are at the local pub eating and drinking discussing who’s going to say what next.
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Ohhhh, Polygamy Porter ALE!
Yeah, after Hoffman and with the history of the Danites, no one is really surprised when things like that happen.
Glad you are safe.
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