Stop the universe, it's leaving us behind (faster-than-light expansion)

Sydney Morning Herald ^ | 3/21/02 | Richard Macey

[mlo]

Yea but you left Cow Flatulence out of your Argument so your whole Theory falls apart...

Sorry, I thought AlGore had that covered.

[oldcats]

Making this an even deeper "we both need lifes" discussion....
When driving the air inside of your car (if it doesn't have as many holes as mine) moves at the same speed of the vehicle....sounds produced inside of that vehicle should move at the speed of sound relative to the air inside....
The same should go for the photons of the light emitted from the headlights. They would not travel at twice the speed.
I am no physist...just a bored typist. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.
Oldcats

[longshadow]

I'm working on it.

Put "Plato the Platyus" on it; he's a sneaky little monotreme.

[PatrickHenry]

One idea I'm working on is to post "speed limit" signs out there where those nasty galaxies are threatening to go FTL. That should do it. But I can't figure out how to get the signs from here out to there, ahead of them, where they'll see them. Any suggestions?

[longshadow]

One idea I'm working on is to post "speed limit" signs out there where those nasty galaxies are threatening to go FTL. That should do it. But I can't figure out how to get the signs from here out to there, ahead of them, where they'll see them. Any suggestions?

Throw them in the laundry; the Quantum Turbo-Gyroscopic Event Horizon Vortex created by the spinning/drying cycle will transmit the signs thru the wormhole to the "Lint Continuum", from whence it should be a simple matter to distribute the Cosmic Speed Limit Signs.

But I have one question.....

..... what units are you going to use on the Speed Limit Signs? m/s? km/hr? miles/hr? furlongs per fortnight?

[PatrickHenry]

what units are you going to use on the Speed Limit Signs?

I thought I'd use something like the bat signal, and shine a big floodlight out there into the emptiness, ahead of them, saying:
"If you can read this you're going too fast!"

[longshadow]

I thought I'd use something like the bat signal, [snip]

I didn't know "Splifford" did Speed Limits.......

[Aric2000]

Throw them in the laundry; the Quantum Turbo-Gyroscopic Event Horizon Vortex created by the spinning/drying cycle will transmit the signs thru the wormhole to the "Lint Continuum", from whence it should be a simple matter to distribute the Cosmic Speed Limit Signs.

Those signs would be covered up by all those socks that seem to disapear into that Vortex as well.

[longshadow]

Those signs would be covered up by all those socks that seem to disapear into that Vortex as well.

That is precisely the defense I plan to use if I'm ever hauled into the Cosmic Traffic Court for exceeding the Speed of Light!

[Aric2000]

lol

[Salman]

If you are in a space ship traveling at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what happens?

The light is blue-shifted all the way to hogh energy gamma rays (relative to you) and you fry.

[Salman]

Cosmic crystallography looks at the 3-dimensional observed distribution of high redshift sources (e.g. galaxy clusters, quasars) in order to discover repeating patterns in their distribution, much like the repeating patterns of atoms observed in crystals. They showed that "pair separation histograms" are in most cases able to detect a multi- connected topology of space, in the form of spikes clearly standing out above the noise distribution as expected in the simply-connected case. The researchers have particularly studied small universe models, which explain the billions of visible galaxies are repeating images of a smaller number of actual galaxies.

Politics of a Punyverse

[Bounceback]

Wrong. The speed of money moving out of my wife's checking account is faster than light.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOL! Thanks for the link!

[Stultis]

However, they admitted yesterday they did not have a clue what "dark energy" was driving the galaxies to defy gravity and fly apart with ever increasing speed.

Simple. The Universe is some kid's science fair project. It was just sped up a bit 'cause the judges only stop briefly (a few billion years) at each booth. We're basically the equivalent of one of those baking soda volcanos. The kid's not apt to win; there aren't nearly enough black holes and exploding stars and other such "cool stuff". He might manage an honorable mention, provided the judges don't notice the carbon-based life-form contaminants.

[tim politicus]

"...of course the view today is not ALWAYS right..."

Not always...?

I apologize for not being more clear; here is what I meant to say:

If something is not logical, it is not true.

Quanitative measurements can only be understood within the framework of the conceptual paradigm we currently understand. The conceptual paradigms we use are governed by logic or else they are governed by nothing at all. Einstein stressed this, are you saying that you aren't aware of his views on this?

Foolish me, I just realized:

We are nearly always right! We've achieved the near END OF SCIENCE! No longer do we really need to be troubled by the vaguely personal subjectivities of logic, doubt, or reasoned analysis!

Now its clear to me: Free and independent thought is not reliable enough to be trusted. What we really know is what someone else has told us! What joy to know that all I need to do is follow in the footsteps of the past and all will be "ok".

Isn't faith in science great?

[mlo]

If something is not logical, it is not true.

Where did you get there was something illogical?

You ignored what I actually said and went on with some rant. Why do you stop ranting and tell us what you think is mistaken about our understanding?

[henbane]

billions of years down the road . . . our sun will be essentially burned out, almost all the stars in the Milky Way will be burned out, and the galaxies will be dark. Is there a way out of this, or is this just how it is going to be?

"There's a hell of a universe next door--let's go." e. e. cummings

[RightWhale]

a clue what "dark energy" was driving the galaxies to defy gravity

Somewhere in the universe of recent FR threads are a couple that discuss the 5th dimension that Nima Arkani-Hamed and others hope to demonstrate in the lab within 3 years. There is speculation that dark energy and dark matter reside at least partially within this 5th dimension.

[tim politicus]

"...tell us what is mistaken about our understanding..."

'Our' copious use of the 'royal "we"' exactly illustrates what is essentially 'wrong' here:

1#) The intoxicating saftey of "herd thinking".

2#) Making a royal priesthood out of those holding the merely (and always temporarily) dominant view in ***any*** field, in order to satisfy that primal inner longing for certitude.

3#) Self certitude in itself. That is religion. It has no place in science.

But to address your corporate concern, here is just one example of the mind-numbing, er ah, make that mind-blowing illogic which we/they/them no longer find a barrier to 'progress':

'We' (unfortunately not the royal one) are told that space itself is rapidly expanding [what a wonderfully unmeasureable phenomena!] in such a manner as to cause the matter in it to actually move faster than the light which it emits.

Seriously, were do I start? Please do reflect on this though: The fact that c is no longer universally understood as constant should by itself tell us that the scientific view is, even in its most assumed or enshrined form, changing. And not always (though usually) for the better.

[e.g., A number of ancient Greek scientists were aware of a heli-centric astronomy, but the view adopted and held for over 1500 years was the ptolemaic.]

But to return to my rant, even if one believed the idea that space ***itself*** expands in this manner, one would have to question why the 'waves' which travel through the assumed [but unproven] etheric (another old idea alternatively worshiped and abandoned) medium would not correspondingly expand, 'expanding' the speed of light along with them. I could go on. Honestly though, why should I have all the fun? Why don't you see if ***you*** could find anything to question in all this.

A final note: Folks, the religious ***only*** respond to rhetoric [call it ranting if you must]. Once someone has ***decided*** not to reason ***for themselves***, no amount of pristene logic will prevail. No amount.

But passion will sometimes get through. No light without fire.