Posted on 06/27/2009 6:13:50 AM PDT by Polarik
OBviously, Obama was not born in Hawaii, so the odds that he was born in Kenya are looking like a sure bet.
How many times do I have to say it?
I would like him out yesterday but the chances of getting that wish are slim to none. 2012 is the best case scenario.
But in no case were the legal beagles (or dingos) of Team Obama REQUIRED to present a legal document. Even if they had been, I am very sure that they could have come up with a for real Hawaiian COLB that would satisfy any court. A forged document on the internet is quite a different matter than one in a court of law. You say they "cited" the forged document, i.e., the one on the Internet. No judge would let that happen, without requiring them to present an actual document ... and neither would any opposing attorney.
More frustrating is that fact that Team Obama has managed to completely conflate the COLB with a Birth Certificate ... and not one person has directly called them on that ... not even the guy from WND.
You guys keep going on the forgery angle. Me and my gang are trying to get a law passed in some state that will demand actual documents from Presidential candidates to verify eligibility. That simply does not exist today ... leaving the Big Hole in the Constitution that Team Obama skated through.
Ain't nobody said stopping Obama was going to be easy. Knowing he's no good is a lot different than getting him in court to prove it.
One of the judges cited--without viewing anything other than the Internet forgery--that the Internet 'document' was so well viewed, twittered, etc. that the challenges was absurd. When will liars stop trying to float new lie after new lie to protect the affirmative action liar-in-chief?
It is prudent to pursue multiple paths of ineligibility rather than bet the farm on one path. You can bet that Team Obama is trying to cover their bases on all fronts.
The Indonesian and British citizenship theories are alike in one aspect and that is that the other countries’ laws and regulations are not binding on our courts. If the definition of natural born citizen is born in the U.S. to two citizen parents, then it doesn’t matter whether or not Obama Sr. and Dunham were married. The only relevant fact in that theory is that Obama Sr. was most certainly not a U.S. citizen. Therefore Obama Jr. was not born to two citizen parents. The marriage is irrelevant.
Birthers have favorite theories. Preferring one theory over another is a natural consequence of having such a diverse group of people, but that doesn’t mean that another birther’s theory is irrelevant or a red herring. Donofrio’s theory is relevant and valid. Polarik’s theory is relevant and valid. Both should be pursued to their end.
Likewise, those who have given up on removing Obama from office this term and instead want to focus on enacting state laws to establish a procedure for verifying eligibility are pursing a path to ineligibility. Their preferred method of ousting Obama is no less relevant or valid than any other method.
From the beginning, Donofrio has felt that Obama would NOT hide behind a VALID birth certificate that would repudiate him — unless it REALLY exists. Obama, when forced, would pop up with the Long Form, in his big “ah-ha!” moment that would back HIS claim and DESTROY ALL “birther” claims.
I disagree. IMO, Obama’s playing a bluff. Leo’s a card shark — he should know better. There’s plenty of people in Washington who know about the issues surrounding the Certification of Live Birth. Many are afraid of being branded a nut, or a racist, and are too cowed to speak out. The preponderance of evidence is overwhelming...
Quite frankly, I DON’T CARE which “birther” camp exposes Obama. The truth is the truth — may it set Obama “free” (or rather, lead to is impeachment and incarceration).
I think there's enough room for ALL of our theories, and do not think ALL of the other will fall apart if ONE is repudiated. Obama and his team has gone through extraordinary means to keep his birth certificate from public eye. He may be slick, but even if he says that Obama Sr was not his dad, he will still be seen as a fraud by a majority (except for his undying fans, of course) for letting the fraud of his Kenyan roots go on for so long.
I, too, do NOT think that Obama Jr. was born in Hawaii. Kenya is quite possible too — I've peiced together a day-by-day itinerary of how it was possible, including their probably air travel route on Pan Am back through the east coast to Washington state. But the Kenya theory requires more hoops for Ann and baby Obama to have jumped through to make it work. I think birth in Washington state or Canada is more likely, simply because of logistics. But, IMO, the preponderance of evidence is that Obama Jr was NOT born in Hawaii is overwhelming for those who GENUINELY take the time to look at the data. HOWEVER, in lieu of proof-positive evidence of birth in Kenya, Canada or otherwise, I use the term "THEORY".
Regarding the divorce, please reference all of the pages: Obama 1964 Divorce -- 13 Pages -- Merged
I spoke with the private detective who got the first parts of the 1964 divorce papers. I was also personally responsible for getting the second parts of the 1964 and 1980 divorce papers, from a very junior clerk at the courthouse that handles that old jurisdiction in Hawaii.
The “Circuit Court of the First Judicial Circuit” is the court Ann Obama went through for the divorce, which is now defunct. Judge Samuel P. King (who is in his 90s and lives in Hawaii) authorized a “knock and nail” notification of divorce to Obama Sr, who was in Boston at college. That notification was delivered via Air Mail on Jan. 30, 1964, to the address he claimed at the time at Harvard. That notification (SEE PGS 10-12 at the link above) was NOT answered by Obama Sr. As the divorce was for “grievous mental suffering”, Judge King automatically granted the divorce to Ann Obama EXACTLY 60 days from the original court date (Jan 20, 1964 t0 Mar 20, 1964). There was no forgery of Obama Sr’s signature that I'm aware of — in fact, there was NO signature from him AT ALL.
However, in speaking with the clerk, she indicated to me that the judge -SHOULD- have asked for a marriage certificate before granting a divorce. In Hawaii, divorce decrees are public record — marriage certificates are not. There seems to be a page missing from the 1964 divorce papers from the page count, but when I queried the clerk about it, she said it was a typo (I'm still unsure about that one...). It MAY be the marriage certificate, which may be part of the file, but not releasable -- but I can't confirm that.
It's POSSIBLE that Ann Obama: a) forged a marriage certificate; b) tricked the judge into accepting her word they were married; or c) was involved in collusion with the Judge to get the divorced to be granted. However, I've never heard in the 18 years from their divorce until his death that Obama SR ever denied they were married. Nor did he deny Obama Jr was his son.
I'm working with information that would be presentable in a court of law — previously-filed court papers would count. IMO, so does your forensics work on the COLB, once we get to that point in the legal process ... that is, once we can find a judge who is not corrupt and willing to review your facts before sealing his or her “No Legal Standing” stamp on the case...
Again, sorry for the previous post.
Two citizen parents? What if one or both was naturalized? What if both were born here, but the grandparents were illegals? Or naturalized? Where's the law on the subject?
The fact is, "natural born citizen" has never been defined by Congress or the courts. Therefore, one must assume it means "citizen at birth", as opposed to "not a citizen at birth but became one later via naturalization (a legal process)". Assuming Obama was indeed born in Hawaii, he was a citizen at birth for sure, per the 14th Amendment, and is therefore a natural born citizen.
Polarik,
It is understandable that Tonchen’s dismissive comment regarding the COLB forgery would offend you because you’ve invested countless hours and immeasurable effort to prove the COLB forgery. Clearly Tonchen is uninformed on that subject and hasn’t taken enough time to investigate it.
Let me say publicly that my posting Tonchen’s primer was never intended to dismiss or discredit your work on the forgery. Neither was it intended to portray the British citizenship issue as the only valid theory. Neither was it intended to imply that Obama has a valid Hawaiian birth certificate.
I support both theories/methods and think they should both be fully explored. Obviously people on this forum feel strongly about one particular path to ineligibility and that’s to be expected.
That is correct. A Supreme Court ruling is needed. Regarding your questions about naturalized parents etc., please search for and read the thread titled "Obama's Presidential Eligibility - An Introductory Primer" written by Stephen Tonchen and posted by me. Please post your comments and questions about it on that thread.
The Senate passed a resolution expressing their opinion that McCain was eligible. They didn't certify anything because they don't have the authority to do so. Only the Supreme Court can interpet the meaning of natural born citizen as used in the Constitution.
Thanks! The article I read here said ceritifed. Appreciate you clearing that up.
The Alinsky-Cloward-Piven crowd is counting on that. Their methods have always been focused on overwhelming our system of rules by making it impossible to live by the standards we set.
Pakistan was not on a U.S. no-travel list at that time. That claim has been debunked.
It was so easy for Americans to travel to Pakistan at that time that Pakistan was issuing 30-day visas at their airports.
I’m not offended by what Stephen said because he was wrong on the true nature of the COLB. Stephen was harping on one side of the issue because that’s what he chose to do. He was unaware of my research, it would seem.
Donofrio is another story entirely. He knows damn well what I’ve done and he’s purposely taking direct shots at me with his comments. People who know me know that I don’t take those attacks lying down.
I was unware that Donofrio is taking pot shots at you. You can be sure that I have your back on that one. I’ll check out what he’s saying and make any necessary/appropriate corrections via comments on his blog.
However, I've never heard in the 18 years from their divorce until his death that Obama SR ever denied they were married. Nor did he deny Obama Jr was his son.
Fuuny, he denied being married to Kezia when he married Stanley Ann. Whoever allegedly provided them with a marriage license was also lied to about Obama's existing marriage. Bigamy was illegal at the time, and if there were any special rules at the time that did not consider African nationals already married to African brides as "legally married," I haven't found any yet.
Plus, I didn't realize that you knew more about Obama's father than Obama knew himself. Were you traveling around with Obama Sr. from divorce to death, 24/7, 365 days a year? You would have had to be to make that claim.
From WND:
In 1986, four years after his father's death, Obama went to Africa for the first time, to be confronted with the truth of his father's life and to meet half-brothers and half-sisters he never knew he had.
In Africa for the first time, Obama admits he was told the truth, perhaps for the first time in his life.
He recounts a conversation with Zeituni, his father's sister.
"Zeituni stopped walking and turned to me," Obama wrote in his autobiography. "'After your father went off to live with his American wife, Ruth … well, he would go to Kezia sometimes. You must understand that traditionally she was still his wife. It was during such a visit that Kezia became pregnant with Abo, the brother you haven't met. The thing was, Kezia also lived with another man briefly during this time. So when she became pregnant again, with Bernard, no one was sure who – ' Zeituni stopped, letting the thought finish itself."
When will we see Obama’s original birth certificate?
Obama is following right into line behind Clinton...
Bill Clinton, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky.”
Barack Obama, “I was born in Hawaii.”
Re: “A liar? A fraud? A traitor? A usurper? A foreign national?
If the shoes fit.”
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