Posted on 04/11/2011 8:55:58 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
That would be infant Barack, if Mary the babysitter's story, as it occurs in the Seattle Gay Times - of all places - is to be believed.
But there are inconsistencies in the timing, because Stanley Ann was in Hawaii in January 1961, according to her U. of Hawaii transcript. Furthermore, Stanley Ann didn't return to Seattle to attend the U. of Washington until August 1961, according to her Washington transcript.
Mary [purported babysitter for infant Barack] NEVER identified ANNA as Stanley Ann Dunham.
Seems kind of questionable that "Anna" was someone other than Stanley Ann, since Stanley Ann was in Seattle with a baby in August of 1961, according to the city directory, and enrolling at the U. of Washington. It's highly doubtful that an 18 year old woman away at college for the first time would be living with and responsible for the care of another woman's baby. And it is plausible that the babysitter would make the slight error of recalling the name as "Anna" rather than "Ann." Stanley Ann in all likelihood had dropped the embarrassing "Stanley" and went under her middle name only in her informal everyday social relationships.
First place, everyone who is interested in this issue owes Fred Nerks a vote of appreciation for a great deal of work and thought.
At this point, the reliable evidence in the record is internally inconsistent to the point where it is not possible to assess with any degree of confidence how a real legal fact finding ought to come out.
For reference purposes, I now call the guy who is living in the White House "Zero" to distinguish him for discussion purposes from other possible identifications of who he is.
The major evidence divides into several discrete categories. The first is the issue of Zero's adoption of the identity of Barack Obama Jr.
There are three pieces of evidence that I see as significant in casting doubt on the prevailing interpretation.
When Obama Sr. died, zero was denied any interest in his estate on the grounds that Obama Sr. was not his father.
The statement to Virginia Goeldner is a substantive statement on the record from a person with knowledge (Stanley Ann's mother) to someone who would have known if Stanley Ann had been Zero's mother at a time Stanley Ann was still alive.
And, there is no evidence that prior to the late 70's or early 80's, zero ever used the name Barack Obama Jr. In fact, there is abundant evidence of his use of another identity throughout the period.
In conjunction with the statement to Ms. Goeldner, it leads to the reasonable inference that his adoption of the Obama identity happened after 1982.
A second area of evidence is the question of his birth place which is legally dispositive of the issue of his eligibility to hold the office of President under Article II, Second 1.
At this point, the only conclusive evidence consists of statements by Zero which are "admissions against interest" from a legal evidentiary perspective and thus admissible in a court proceeding.
There are a number of affidavits from individuals who had direct private conversations with Zero in which he stated that he was born in Kenya. There are a number of other affidavits and other records from persons who observed him make that statement in a quasi public setting.
His conversation with Race Bannon, a member here, in the early 1980's is particularly persuasive. At the time, Bannon is in the Navy, returning to Hawaii from a tour on which his last stop was Mombasa. He runs into Zero in a bar in Hawaii and after telling Zero his last port was Mombasa, Zero responds by explaining to Bannon that he was born in Mombasa.
In the correct kind of legal proceeding, that evidence alone may well be enough to put the burden on Zero to come up with evidence as to where he was born in the United States to establish his eligibility to hold the office of President.
The third area of evidence pertains to Stanley Ann and the Mombasa birth event.
In the first place, like Fred, I have become somewhat skeptical about the Stanley Ann Mercer Island story. Weighing against that skepticism however is the fact that if Stanley Ann was not at Mercer Island in at least the 1960-61 and 1959-60 school years, there is a volume of evidence that is perjured or falsified.
There are probably forty or fifty Mercer Island people who have made statements confirming Stanley Ann's presence--all consistent with the University of Washington transcript that identifies her as a 1961 Mercer Island graduate.
I think faking the transcript is very very unlikely although not impossible. Although the center of gravity on Mercer Island today is extreme left, that was not always so and many of the participants in the Mercer Island portion of the legend would need to have been motivated to lie by some consideration other than their political views.
On balance, I still think Stanley Ann was probably at Mercer Island at least during her junior and senior years of high school. Not conclusive; but more probable than not.
On equal footing is the University of Washington transcript and Stanley Ann's school record. I have substantial first hand knowledge of the University of Washington record procedures and the events of the 1961-1963 academic period at the University.
There are differences between my account and Jerome Corsi's record on World Net Daily. Mine is correct--his is not. However I tend to believe that the difference is not material.
Stanley Ann or someone using her name registered for Night School at the University on September 19, 1961 (not August 19); and attended Night School classes fall quarter 1961 (September 23 to December 5) as well as winter quarter 1962 (January to March); and then transferred to the regular college and attended classes spring quarter 1962.
It is not conclusive that person was in fact Stanley Ann. But it is very difficult to come up with a hypothetical that reconciles any reasonable objective in 1961 that would have been addressed by using a substitute.
But if the transcript is accepted as accurate evidence, it also establishes that a person using Stanley Ann's name was at the University of Hawaii in class in the fall of 1961 where she is purported to have met Obama Sr.
The issue of a substitute Ann or Anna comes from the record of a person using the name Ann or Anna Obama in Hawaii prior to 1962. The issue is further complicated by the current Governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombe.
Abercrombe is a long term Hawaii person who was present in Hawaii in the relevant 1960-1962 period. He remembers a white woman with a half black child who had some relationship with Obama Sr. In his campaign, Abercrombe stated that if elected, he would resolve the Zero birth certificate issue. He has since attempted to do that without success. However the important point is that he confirms the presence of another black/white quasi couple with a child in Hawaii in the period prior to the Stanley Ann events.
There is another credible person who confirms the same conditions--a white Obama woman with a half black baby.
The next level of evidentiary inquiry is with respect to Stanley Ann and the Mombasa birth.
The conclusion above that Zero did not use the name Obama prior to the late 70's or early 80's needs to be distinguished from Stanley Ann for another reason. It is conclusive on the legal record that in 1964, Stanley Ann initiated a legal proceeding to divorce Obama Sr. The pleading states that she and Sr. had a child for which she sought custody.
Local court rules would have required that such a proceeding include a birth certificate of the minor child. The page from the proceeding that most likely is such a birth certificate is missing however there is a reasonable record supporting the proposition that a certificate obtained by Orly Tavitz is a reproduction of the certificate that was used for that purpose. That certificate appears to be fraudulent. The inference is that Stanley Ann could not obtain a true certificate.
There is a second early appearance in the record of an Obama Jr.
A person who claims to have been employed at the Hawaii Dept. of Public Health in the period in which the issue of Zero's birthplace first became an issue in the Illinois Senate campaign against Alan Keys claims to have surreptitiously copied the Hawaii birth file. Through an anonymous attorney in the Midwest, that file has found its way into the record and it includes two relevant documents.
One is a printed state records document captioned "Certificate" which appears to be an application for a birth certificate file on behalf of a baby born outside the normal hospital situation--a home birth. The application requires completion with signature of a parent or grandparent; and of a person who participated in the birth; and of a third person with knowledge.
The three signatures are fraudulent in that they are all written in the same handwriting which appears to be the same as the handwriting on the receipt for service of process in the divorce proceeding by Obama Sr. inferring that if the handwriting is the same, the application was completed by Obama Sr.
One of the purported signatures is illegible; another is misspelled.
That application states that a baby was born to Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. in Coast Provincial General Hospital in Mombasa on August 4, 1961.
A second piece of paper from the same file purports to be the tear sheet from a birth report to the British Colonial Service by the doctor who delivered the baby confirming the same birth.
Incidentally, that record would be consistent with the public statements by the Hawaii Department of Health which would also explain why the department will not issue a true certificate of live birth for Zero.
And, as everyone here is probably aware, there is the Lucas Smith birth certificate confirming the birth of Barack Obama Jr. in Mombasa to Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. on August 4, 1961. Although that certificate has been attacked as fraudulent, I remain of the view that it is probably a true certificate.
And the Wayne Madsen report in late 2007 or early 2008 confirms the existence of another certificate in general circulation in DC in that time frame with the same information.
The Smith certificate is significant because it shows a footprint--which as we are all about to learn is a significant fact. The print of the baby's foot on the certificate is how you identify an adult as the person born on that certificate.
There is also, as someone above points out, a record of Stanley Ann's effort to leave Nairobi in late July or early August of 1961, visibly pregnant. And tertiary purported testimony regarding her recounting of the circumstances at a later date.
The point of the distinction between the use of the Obama name by Zero and the birth record that exists for Stanley Ann in 1961 is that there is no evidence that Zero is the person referenced in the certificates or purported certificates.
And the only evidentiary connection of course would be the footprint. At the point this becomes a legal issue, a court would force Obama to produce a footprint. If the footprint matched the Smith Certificate, it would confirm the validity of the Smith Certificate record as well as the fact that Zero was born in Mombasa.
For the reasons set out above, I now doubt that the footprint will match.
So on the record, it is fair to believe that Stanley Ann or someone using her name had a child in Mombasa who is no longer to be found anywhere on the public record. Perhaps having died.
That at some future date, Stanley Ann and her parents became custodians and later adoptive surrogates for another child who is substituted into the Obama record.
Who that child is and where he came from is not to be found in any part of the record other than his first hand statements that he was born in Kenya.
Interesting group indeed. Just your average, every day middle American family.... right.
OK, so what about the scores of relatives in Kenya (and elsewhere) who claim Barack Obama, jr as kin via Barack sr, and Stanley Ann? This would clearly make Barack, jr, the son of Barack, sr, in contradiction to your assumption that an unknown child was taken into adoptive custody by Stanley Ann and parents.
WOW!
They are all gaining something from doing so. Mark says straight up on the record that he got $200k up front with another $400k to come if he keeps his mouth shut until Zero is out of the White House.
And, not to say that Zero is not in fact born somewhere in the clan although at present, I tend to doubt it.
So Stanley Ann Dunham was not the mother? If this Goeldner is accurate, that would have to be the case, because there is little doubt that Stanley Ann lived until 1995 (according to the Social Security Death Index and a seemingly non-controversial contemporaneous obit in the Honolulu Advertiser).
But if you presume that Stanley Ann Dunham isn't Barack's natural mother, you have to a lot of explaining to do. Why was Stanley Ann was taking care of him in infancy in Seattle, when she filed divorce papers c. 1965, and in Indonesia when his name became "Barry Soetoro"? A young woman like this wouldn't fit the usual profile of a foster parent.
I guess I have problems with the concept of parsimony, or, if you will, Occam’s Razor. Stanley Ann had a baby in Mombasa, but she took another baby back to the states? Every witness has her vehemently saying that Zero is the son of Barack, sr.
You are saying that Barack Hussein Obama was not used before 1980? I think not. As far as I can tell, he did go by Barack Obama in kindergarten and in that picture from 5th grade (?) in Hawaii that a classmate sent to the Zero to sign. I don’t have the documents in front of me, but I thought he was named thusly in the divorce documents. The Soebarkah document (possibly) references a change in name from Barack Hussein Obama to “Soebarkah”. The Seattle references may also support the Barack Hussein Obama, as Stanley Ann referred to herself as Mrs. Obama.
In my mind, the preponderance of evidence suggests that Stanley Ann had a child with Barack, sr in Mombasa. It seems like quite a stretch to imply that,somehow, this baby was left behind and another taken to the States.
Pushing baby Barack's birth back to January 1961 might be consistent with Mary Toutonghi's account, but it's inconsistent with Stanley Ann Dunham's college transcripts, which have her enrolling in the U. Of Washington in August 1961. The only way to explain the discrepency would be to accept that Stanley Ann was not Baby Barack's mother. But then why would 17 year-old Stanley Ann be taking responsibility for another woman's baby while attending college at the U. of Washington? Highly unlikely, IMHO.
Bravo!
I think there is a lot of BS here about two items 1) The claim of a difference “Anna Obama,” which Fred Nerks found in the fictional work, Dreams from My Father 2) The idea that Stanley Ann had a baby, but took a different baby back to the States! Even freeper David agrees that, somehow, Barack, sr was born in Mombasa. And there are tons of relatives claiming kinship, and his trips to Kenya to meet his “so-called” family who accepted his kinship without reservation, it just doesn’t make any sense.
Clearly, there are unresolved aspects around the Seattle period, but there are unresolved aspects of every period of his life! Similarly, the name BHO, jr was not just “invented” in 1980, though it is quite possible that is when Zero (again) started using his birth name.
To me, I am 100 per cent convinced that Zero was not born in Hawaii; there is no hospital record to support an Obama or Dunham baby. I have no idea why Stanley Ann went to Kenya pregnant (there is evidence that she was unable to take a flight home because of her condition), or even if Barack, sr went there with her. I do know that his second mulatto child, Mark, was also born in Kenya.
Clearly, there has been a lot of tampering with records by Obama’s lawyers. I just can’t think of a simpler conclusion that Stanley Ann’s baby is our president Zero
Gosh I’m going to have to read this all over again real slow.Zero is not anything we thought.Who’s child is he?
Didn’t say she took another baby back to the United States.
I know of nowhere he used the name Obama in Kindergarten; He didn’t use the name on the photo with Scott until he signed it in the White House which is self serving.
The divorce documents use Junior for the name of the minor child but there is no evidence anywhere of any nature that Zero is the person referenced.
If the person on Capitol Hill was in fact Stanley Ann, she referred to herself as Obama but that doesn’t have anything to do with Zero.
I am not going to respond further to you. You need to understand that the point is that there is not yet any hard evidence to connect any of these names or name uses to the individual who presently occupies the White House under circumstances in which there is in fact evidence suggesting that he is not the person to whom the name was attached at birth.
What we do know about Mercer Island was that the high school she attended there and its administration was about the most leftist in the entire country at the time. If she wasn't already a Red Diaper baby from her earlier years, she could have come out of her high school highly influenced by socialist and communist ideology, more so than the vast majority of her contemporaries, ready to pass it on to her son with serious consequences to the nation down the road.
Too funny the entire family has a different story on where Obama was born... Yeah I’m sure they are telling the truth...(sarcasm off).
Oh and that is why Obama has spent over 2 million dollars to fight the release of this too. Common folks this is SO ABSURD we even have to state the obvious!
the point is that there is not yet any hard evidence to connect any of these names or name uses to the individual who presently occupies the White House under circumstances in which - there is in fact evidence suggesting that he is not the person to whom the name was attached at birth.
Thanks, David.
Mary did not guess at the dates, she based what she said on her own children. She said that her daughter was 18 months old at the time. Her daughter was born on Jul 6, 1959. So she turned 18 months on January 6, 1961. Would a mother have thought that her own child was only half the age that she would have been in the spring of 1962? Also, if she were babysitting in the spring of 1962, she would have also been pregnant with Michael Joseph. She most certainly would have mentioned that piece of information, but she didn’t.
Do you really mean that as written? If so, that is a new fact to me.
Specifically, do you mean listed as "Dunham" or as Anna Obama?
There is another point I would like to suggest about Mary. The circumstances under which she was interviewed look like campaign support for the legend under circumstances where if you read Dreams, you would never guess that the Seattle Interval existed.
Mary is clearly another Liberal Obama supporter.
Thus you might be skeptical about all of the elements of her story.
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