Put the Phosphate Back into your Dish detergent

Self | 6/26/2011 | Self

[Blood of Tyrants]

As many of you have discovered, you automatic dish detergent hasn't been working very well for the past year, leaving a white film on the dishes. Well, the reason, as usual, is the envirowhackos using junk science to claim that algae blooms in rivers are caused by the phosphates in your dish detergent. The phosphates in detergent do NOT cause the algae to bloom because the algae can't break down the trisodium phosphates. So, instead of check out the facts, the detergent companies were more interested in currying favor with the envirowhackos.

Well, there isn't much way to get them to change their mind, especially since it is actually cheaper for them to make phosphate free detergent (never mind it doesn't work), but you CAN replace the phosphates in your detergent. Just go to the cleaner section of your local hardware store and look for Trisodium Phosphate. Home Depot and Lowes both carry it. Just add about a teaspoon to every load and you will get your dishes clean again. This is the cheapest method.

You can also buy Cascade with phosphates from places that sell commercial grade cleaners. Restockit.com is one place. I am sure there are others if you search.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I’ve used CLR, too. We have a lot of limestone around here.

[jonrick46]

The poor dish-washing performance also uses more energy and water. When Cascade made their complete dishwasher soap with the phosphate, we very rarely prewashed our dishes. My son was so lazy about it he threw dishes in with corn and mashed potatoes stuck to the plates. Even so, they came out spotless. Now we have to prewash which uses more hot water and more energy. Chalk one more up for the environweenies. To them I give the all time Anthony Wiener Award.

[USMCPOP]

I’m not using it. I had run across some forums discussing various homemade detergents.

[USMCPOP]

More STPP info:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/laundry/2003052601018823.html

[MsLady]

I was wondering why my glasses were looking so bad. Would vinegar or borax do the same thing as TSP?

[Free Vulcan]

I haven’t tried either in the dishwasher. I have used borax in the laundry and it does well though not as good as TSP.

[tomkat]

Might just be easier to beat an enviro whacko

It would most certainly be more gratifying !

[wintertime]

Home Depot and Lowes both carry it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not our Lowes or Home Depot! We order ours from an Internet company. ( Sorry...my husband gets it and I don’t know the company name. )

[deadsteve]

I use about 1 tablespoon in with my clothes.
Be careful it may bleach dark colors.

[flyingtabby]

Get Sodium Tripolyphosphate at The Chemical Store - I put in one Electrosol tab and fill the rest of the cup with it in my dishwasher. Works like a charm. And a small amount in the washing machine - about 2-3 tablespoons does it. TSP is not so good.

[TennesseeGirl]

I thought my old dishwasher was needing repaired or replaced, lol. Thanks for the tip. (Geez, I wish the government would butt out of my household — cleaning products, paint, toilets, bathtubs, lightbulbs, insecticides...GRRRRR!)

[flyingtabby]

You want STPP not TSP - Sodium tripolyphosphate. From the Chemical Store, online. TSP is NOT as effective and can be damaging. Interestingly I was called by Fox News a few months ago about this because I had posted on their site about it. However, they never ran the story. They had been asking in a poll about it and I posted the answer to use STPP and they told me many others are doing the same. The real kicker is that hotels and restaurants are REQUIRED to use phosphates and they are far bigger users of the detergents than all households combined. Damn this government to HELL! And DAMN the EPA!!!

[TennesseeGirl]

Customers better smile for the camera when they pick up lye at the big chains. Since all transactions at the cash registers are filmed, all Big Bro has to do is ask the stores for the copies. Lye is an ingredient used in making meth. God forbid you have allergies and need a decongestant. :)

[Ro_Thunder]

One thing I’ve started doing is putting a squirt of Palmolive had dish soap in the closed door section of the dishwasher, as well as the Cascade/Finish/whatever powder, and it seems to work just fine, phosphates or no.

[greeneyes]

I have used about 1/2 cup vinegar in the final rinse, and the glassware all comes out looking great. We have hard water, and the new dish washing detergents were all leaving a film.

I have never tried Borax in the dish washer. 20 mule team borax is a wonderful cleaner and deodorizer, so I make a laundry detergent using borax and washing soda, granny's lye soap or castile soap.

20 mule team borax is made in the USA. My castile soap is made in Kentucky, lye soap is made locally. Where ever possible I try to support USA products.

[verum ago]

The phosphates in detergent do NOT cause the algae to bloom because the algae can't break down the trisodium phosphates.

They don't need to break down an orthophosphate like trisodium phosphate. The basic phosphorus containing unit in every living thing is orthophosphate (PO₄^3-). Trisodium phosphate dissolves to directly give the orthophosphate anion.

I think you're thinking of sodium tripolyphosphate (also called sodium triphosphate sometimes). I don't know if algae can break it down directly, but they don't need to. It breaks down on its own over a matter of hours in solution.

Both trisodium phosphate and sodium triphosphate really do encourage algal growth where phosphate is a limiting nutrient because they both result in highly bioavailable phosphate. Please note, however, that I am not endorsing the Greens' stance of banning highly effective phosphate based cleaners from use.

Most of the studies on free phosphate concentration have until recently used methods which overestimate its concentration grossly (we're talking overestimation by entire orders of magnitude). In other words, yeah the stuff can cause problems in sufficient concentration, but the prevalence of such concentrations has historically been vastly overestimated. Of course, since letting the truth get out would damage their arguments and reputations, the Greens have knowingly stuck to outdated information to advance their anti-civilization/progress agenda. Never underestimate their ability to distort the truth or lie convincingly. Bastards.

[SAJ]

Well, that's rather a non-starter. Sodium hydroxide is FAR easier to produce in (even a minimalist) lab than is methedrine (or methamphetamine, if you prefer). All you need is slaked lime and soda ash, or even wood ash will do if purity of the final product is not an issue.

Thus, if some bozo is going to make methedrine, in theory he should have no trouble whatever making sodium hydroxide as a precursor. Filming purchasors of NaOH in order to prevent the manufacture of methedrine must be one of the grossest examples of wasting time and money.

Note to would-be manufacturers of NaOH: prefer making it outdoors, absent a top-quality ventilation system, and definitely be well-masked and -gloved. And make sure you combine the reagents DOWNwind from yourself. Wouldn't want to cough up a lung, now would we?

In short, only a competent chemist should try making NaOH; it's easily done, but one MUST know what one is about or else suffer severe physical damage. If someone isn't up to snuff here, buying NaOH will hold similar risks. You could ask the Drano people for a real-life, and very expensive, example of this.

[verum ago]

lol I’d give you the formulas and diagrams but it’s hard to draw freehand in FR’s posting system ;)

[Freedom4US]

I don’t think so, it won’t touch that, get thee some STPP. The glasswear was horrid, thought something was wrong with the dishwasher.

It came out sparkly clear in just one washadding a heaping teaspoon of STPP. Works great in the laundry too.

TSP works too, but prefer STPP. Both products will degrade over time and exposure to air. A 15 pound container of STPP costs about $50 shipped, but should last a year or so.

[radioone]

Had to have the pump replaced in our 15 year old dishwasher recently. We asked the fellow who was installing the pump his opinion on getting dishes clean. His recommendation was to use granular dishwasher detergent in one of the “holders” and granular Lemi-Shine in the other one. We already use the Cascade with phosphates, and this half and half mix works very well.