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Muggers Meet Target's Sig Sauer P239
New Haven Independent ^ | Aug. 2, 2011 | Paul Bass

Posted on 08/03/2011 12:09:57 PM PDT by opus86

Brandon Kruse said nothing when three attackers set upon him on his way out for sushi and a beer. Words weren’t necessary.

Kruse pulled out a handgun instead. The attackers fled; soon after, he helped the cops arrest them.

(Excerpt) Read more at newhavenindependent.org ...


TOPICS: Local News; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; guns; selfdefense
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1 posted on 08/03/2011 12:10:00 PM PDT by opus86
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To: opus86

I hope the gun owner enjoys his stay in jail.

How dare him for thinking he has the right to protect himself and those other innocents around him.


2 posted on 08/03/2011 12:13:20 PM PDT by adm5 (AMERICA HAS ONLY GOD AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT LEFT TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC. by: LibLieSlayer 3/18/10)
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To: opus86

It is RACIST to interfere with Eric Holder’s people when they are minding their own bidness.


3 posted on 08/03/2011 12:15:19 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: adm5

whats with the extra apostrophe


4 posted on 08/03/2011 12:16:42 PM PDT by rokkitapps ( Hearings on healthcare waivers NOW! (If you agree make this your tagline))
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To: adm5
I hope the gun owner enjoys his stay in jail.

Perhaps you could point me toward where that information occurs in the story? I've read it twice and can't locate anything that says the assault victim was arrested and jailed.

5 posted on 08/03/2011 12:18:28 PM PDT by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
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To: adm5

Huh? According to the article, he didn’t go to jail.


6 posted on 08/03/2011 12:19:01 PM PDT by hiredhand
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To: opus86

Should’ve seen the guy trying to steal my light house solar lights skedaddle out of my yard when he saw my BB gun Ruger replica, lol


7 posted on 08/03/2011 12:21:15 PM PDT by RowdyFFC
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To: opus86

If this was me and Mrs Clamper in Arizona these muggers would either meet Mr .45 HK or Mr. Glock27 .40 depending on my mood and/or Mrs Clampers .380 Rugar LCP.


8 posted on 08/03/2011 12:24:19 PM PDT by clamper1797 (Hoping to have some change left)
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To: hiredhand

Argh.

Sarcasm is lost on many I suppose.


9 posted on 08/03/2011 12:29:00 PM PDT by adm5 (AMERICA HAS ONLY GOD AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT LEFT TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC. by: LibLieSlayer 3/18/10)
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To: opus86
Actually, the CCL holder did several things that are “wrong” from what he would have learned in a really good self-defense course that is focused on keeping him out of court.

First, when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent. Being in fear for one’s life is justification in most cases for being allowed to pull a legally carried firearm from concealment and use it.

In some jurisdictions if you “just pull a concealed carry firearm and don't shoot anyone” the police will question you if you feared for your life. If you say something to the effect that you determined that you didn't need to shoot anyone because your life was not in danger or your were not afraid of serious bodily harm (or harm/death of another) than you may have admited guilt to escalating a non-deadly force confrontation into a deadly force confrontation. Which typically is called brandishing in may jurisdictions.

As to his drawing a firearm on the two “yoots” that came back for their bags and stuff, well technically he was probably thinking of himself as helping the police by detaining them without making a proper citizens arrest. In a lot of places that would have gotten him thrown in jail and possibly allowed the two “yoots” to sue him in civil court. Again, not a really wise thing to do, the way he did it, if what is reported in the story is correct.

The point of this comment is that when one takes the trouble to get a concealed carry license (and yes I have one) then one should spend some time learning about when deadly force (i.e. pointing a handgun at someone and probably killing them (to live)) is allowed by the law and when you are opening yourself up to lawsuits or jail time.

This guy was lucky that the police and prosecutor viewed him as a stand-up guy protecting himself. It could have turned out far worse for him.

10 posted on 08/03/2011 12:30:13 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: adm5

“I hope the gun owner enjoys his stay in jail.”

Idiot comment...you should not post crap like that that is not in the article.


11 posted on 08/03/2011 12:30:29 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: opus86

What I found interesting was that two of the idiots had to return to the scene to retrieve shopping bags and sandals. Brilliant.


12 posted on 08/03/2011 12:31:38 PM PDT by opus86
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To: adm5

LOL! :-) I’m “with” ya now. :-) Amen! :-)


13 posted on 08/03/2011 12:34:15 PM PDT by hiredhand
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
Idiot comment...you should not post crap like that that is not in the article.

Unreal. Do you know what the term "sarcasm" means? Who has posted the idiotic comment?

14 posted on 08/03/2011 12:38:59 PM PDT by adm5 (AMERICA HAS ONLY GOD AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT LEFT TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC. by: LibLieSlayer 3/18/10)
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To: opus86
What I found interesting was that two of the idiots had to return to the scene to retrieve shopping bags and sandals. Brilliant.

They must have skedaddled out of there in a mighty big hurry.

15 posted on 08/03/2011 12:43:04 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: adm5

Went right over their heads...

.


16 posted on 08/03/2011 12:48:05 PM PDT by flatfish
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To: adm5

Your ‘sarc’ tag was missing, my friend.


17 posted on 08/03/2011 12:49:23 PM PDT by GGpaX4DumpedTea (I am a tea party descendant - steeped in the Constitutional legacy handed down by the Founders)
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To: adm5

Some people are kinda ‘slow” on FR, but in fairness, most Freepers use (s/) or sarc/ in their sarc posts.


18 posted on 08/03/2011 12:57:55 PM PDT by max americana (FUBO NATION 2012 FK BARAK)
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To: Robert357
First, when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent.

Do CCL classes really teach people they need to verbally warn a mugger before firing? Like a warning shot or something? Giving up the element of a few precious seconds sounds like a pretty good way to get yourself killed.

I would never give a mugger a warning like that. His first warning would be the flash from the muzzle. If I aim correctly, ideally he should never hear the sound.

19 posted on 08/03/2011 12:59:10 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; All

It sounds like they are playing the “knockout game”:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2758175/posts


20 posted on 08/03/2011 12:59:27 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Cyber Liberty
Do CCL classes really teach people they need to verbally warn a mugger before firing?

It doesn't seem like he was suggesting a "warning" to me.

I would think yelling "Don't kill me", would be more effective.

21 posted on 08/03/2011 1:01:52 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
Eric Holder's people play that "Knockout King" game around here, too.

The parents of the perps act like it's harmless fun and nobody should take offense.

But if you did the same thing to their punk, they'd be screaming for reparations faster than you can say "Eric Holder's people."

22 posted on 08/03/2011 1:06:44 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: opus86

Good for Brandon!

So far this year, there have been 20 homicides in New Haven. Glad he wasn’t one of them.

Hartford has about 21 murders. If you don’t carry in these cities...well, youse take your chances.


23 posted on 08/03/2011 1:09:53 PM PDT by Daffynition ("Don't just live your life, but witness it also.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Eric Holder's people play that "Knockout King" game around here, too. The parents of the perps act like it's harmless fun and nobody should take offense.

Being knocked out is a deadly threat and can be legitimately met with deadly force.

24 posted on 08/03/2011 1:15:15 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: adm5

you should have used the sarcasm tag, if you do not peolple think you are being series.


25 posted on 08/03/2011 1:19:32 PM PDT by Ratman83
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Eric Holder’s people.”

Holderites!


26 posted on 08/03/2011 1:25:01 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: marktwain
Being knocked out is a deadly threat and can be legitimately met with deadly force.

That's what I'm hoping for.

When it happens, the parents will be ENRAGED.

It will be fun to watch.

27 posted on 08/03/2011 1:25:20 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Palin is coming, and the Tea Party is coming with her.)
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To: adm5

Sarcasm doesn’t come through very often in flat text messages. Without the inflection of a spoken voice that we usually use for sarcasm, it is difficult to spot sometimes. That’s why people call it out with a [/s] or other tag to make it clear. It doesn’t work in e-mail either and often results in misunderstandings.


28 posted on 08/03/2011 1:30:29 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Cyber Liberty
If he had indeed shot the mugger, I would agree with you, but he didn't shoot the mugger. That to me means that it was his intention to try to intimidate the mugger, which is not good. My suggestion was based on the guy's approach to things, not best practice.

The approach you suggest of if you feel you are in a deadly force confrontation is totally appropriate....”shoot to live.”

As you probably know, warning shots will get you in a lot of legal trouble in some places and should never, never, be done. That is Hollywood and not the real world.

We probably have more to agree to than disagree on.

29 posted on 08/03/2011 1:34:12 PM PDT by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: Robert357
That to me means that it was his intention to try to intimidate the mugger, which is not good.

I agree with that 100%. Guns are for shooting, not brandishing. People who pull guns to threaten get killed every day.

30 posted on 08/03/2011 1:35:48 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: adm5

You gotta use a sarcasm tag. This ain’t no mensa meetin’ here ya know! lol


31 posted on 08/03/2011 1:36:25 PM PDT by TigersEye (No dark sarcasm in the press room ... Hey!, Barry!, leave them bills alone.)
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To: Robert357

Oh, a good example of how it should be done: The guy that pinned down that moron shooter who shot Gabriele Giffords and others in Tucson was carrying concealed, but never drew the weapon from the holster. Didn’t have to, didn’t fear for his life.


32 posted on 08/03/2011 1:38:30 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: Robert357

“when punched he should have shouted out “I fear for my life” rather than being silent. “

That’s urban legend. No court requires a person to make such a ridiculous statement. If you have the time and the mentality to say such a thing you probably are not in actual fear of your life and are simply grandstanding.


33 posted on 08/03/2011 1:38:48 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam needs to be banned in the US and treated as a criminal enterprise.)
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To: Robert357

You make a good point, but I’d quibble with a couple of parts. You don’t have to yell “I fear for my life”... in fact if you have the presence of mind and can take the time to do that, it’s almost evidence that you’re ~not~ in immediate danger. :-)

As far as I know, there’s no official “citizen’s arrest” magic words. After neutralizing the threatening person (they drop the knife and give up...) you simple detain them by getting control and keeping them under control until the police get there— ideally by handcuffing them if you have ‘em, or zip-ties or whatever’s handy.

A pair of handcuffs (and a key!!) is a good and often overlooked accessory for a carry pistol. Just in case you don’t have to shoot, suddenly you’ve got a whole new problem of what to do with the guy. :-)


34 posted on 08/03/2011 1:45:28 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: Cyber Liberty
Tactics used when confronting a mugger or other criminal would and could vari from each situation.

The actions taken could vari from just telling at him them to back off to drawing and firing with out warning. One needs to be prepared to use the right tactics for the right situation.

It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. I see way to many comments of shoot first ask questions later. Such thinking could easily end with you in prison.

Using force that result's in the death or servre injury of another person needs to be taken only when justifiable.

There is nothing wrong with a person defending themselves but doing so wrongly will make your life miserable for a long time.

35 posted on 08/03/2011 1:51:14 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner

Too many people are willing to draw, but are not willing to shoot. Those are the ones that go home in a body bag.


36 posted on 08/03/2011 2:12:34 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: sig226

Ping, for obvioud reasons!


37 posted on 08/03/2011 2:28:56 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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To: rokkitapps

Must have stolen yours.


38 posted on 08/03/2011 2:43:54 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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Click Florida

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39 posted on 08/03/2011 2:44:15 PM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: adm5
I think this board has been infiltrated by liberals. In every thread one chimes in with 'they're not all like that,' 'what do you mean by that comment?'

Typical liberals. Anything to change the topic and throw a wrench into the works.

40 posted on 08/03/2011 2:52:03 PM PDT by Realman30 ("I've already made a donation to Haiti. It's called taxes". . . . El Rushbo.)
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To: max americana

Back in the day, sarc tags were not needed. Perhaps the ability of the membership to discern obvious sarc has been lost.


41 posted on 08/03/2011 2:57:01 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Cyber Liberty
Too many people are willing to draw, but are not willing to shoot. Those are the ones that go home in a body bag.

Are you seeing stories involving this? I am not. My impression is that I see more stories where someone shot too soon rather than shot too late.

42 posted on 08/03/2011 2:58:58 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Guy in Mesa AZ a few weeks back. Traffic altercation. He drew and was walking on the other driver, who opened up on him and killed him. Should have cooled off because his life wasn’t in danger until he brandished.


43 posted on 08/03/2011 3:03:24 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: opus86
Good for Mr. Kruse but what a God awful written article............
44 posted on 08/03/2011 3:05:32 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (You can't forfeit the game Chuck! If you go home you forfeit!)
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To: Cyber Liberty
Guy in Mesa AZ a few weeks back. Traffic altercation. He drew and was walking on the other driver, who opened up on him and killed him. Should have cooled off because his life wasn’t in danger until he brandished.

I recall that story. I would have said it a little differently. What I think you are saying is that he drew too soon rather than he didn't shoot fast enough.

There are a fair number of stories where people shoot too fast, or wait until they are being beat into the ground to draw.

45 posted on 08/03/2011 3:16:13 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain
What I think you are saying is that he drew too soon rather than he didn't shoot fast enough.

I don't think he should have drawn at all, because from what I read on the story, his life was not in danger. He could have simply driven off, and if the other guy pursued, then he would have had a different story. So yes, he did draw too soon.

I think he failed to appreciate the other guy had the same rights as he, and he could just chew the guy out while holding a gun on him. That's fatal stupid.

46 posted on 08/03/2011 3:29:39 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: Cyber Liberty
I think he failed to appreciate the other guy had the same rights as he, and he could just chew the guy out while holding a gun on him. That's fatal stupid.

We do not disagree on this.

I have read of numerous cases where people show a gun and the assailants run off.

I have also read of cases where someone has a gun, and does not draw it until they are already bloodied and on the ground.

Of course there are plenty of cases where someone shoots, or shoots a warning shot, when they are not justified, and it leads to bad results all around.

We passed a defensive display law in Arizona to allow the gun to be displayed so that the other person knows that you are armed, if you are concerned for your safety.

47 posted on 08/03/2011 3:52:37 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

One of the reasons I live in AZ as well. Real “common sense” gun laws. But...Brewer’s coming up short now that she’s been elected. She snubbed the last couple of important laws. There’s a major street in Tempe I can’t drive on because she vetoed the law that would have permitted carrying in a car on streets within a University campus.


48 posted on 08/03/2011 4:05:32 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Oh, well, any excuse to buy a new gun is good enough for me.)
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To: opus86

The first handgun I ever puchased at retail was a Sig P239. I regret selling it.


49 posted on 08/03/2011 5:49:29 PM PDT by Dayman
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To: opus86

Should have opened fire and followed up with head shots.

Disparity of force. He’s completely justified in eliminating the threats.

Pulling out a gun to detain people is a bad idea, especially when a nut job advances saying “Shoot me, I want to die.” It has happened.

Fortunately in many one on one encounters just presenting a weapon extinguishes a threat, not even necessarily drawing the weapon, but a hand on grip. However, you must be prepared to use it if things go south...it can always be used against you as well.

Do you tell the police you drew your firearm? Hell no.

And in this day and age of corruption, depending on many factors, place, witnesses, etc — whether it’s a firefight or not — I may just disappear and tell authorities zilch.


50 posted on 08/03/2011 6:04:02 PM PDT by TheBigJ
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