Posted on 09/17/2014 4:36:52 PM PDT by Kansas58
A very disturbing number of Freepers are openly advocating, on Free Republic threads, for the defeat of Senator Pat Roberts and other good Conservative Republicans. Greg Orman, in Kansas, is a pro abortion, anti gun, tax and spend Liberal Democrat who has given tens of thousands of dollars to Obama and Pelosi and the Democrat Party and Harry Reid. I am called an "idiot" for supporting Roberts. However, I think that those on Free Republic who support Harry Reid and Greg Orman should be ZOTTED, kicked off the site. I have had enough of there hate filled, vindictive, misguided trash.
That's your tagline. If you have an understanding of that principle, you acknowledge that you can't rationalize supporting candidates who push abortion and queer "rights."
You can also see by this thread how much vitriol conservatives can heap on their own ideological allies. It doesn’t bode well for our political future.
Well stated —
And exactly how I feel!
CatherineofAragon: “I would refuse to put my support behind anyone who backs baby murder. Period.”
That eliminates a pro-life vote and helps improve the odds of the worst, pro-death candidate. If abortion is your #1 issue and both candidates are the same, I can see your point. However, what if one candidate is wobbly while the other is a death cultist, aka Democrat? I respect your stand, but I’d rather take positive action (voting) to try and stop the death cultist. I can always try to defeat the wobbly one in the next primary or at least try to influence him as a member of my party.
“We cannot let our desire to win elections blind us to reality.”
But the reality is you must win elections. You cannot stop or reduce abortions by not winning elections.
You cannot reduce abortions by electing supporters of abortion.
As you say, you cannot reduce abortions by losing elections.
Therefore, you must win elections with candidates who reject abortion.
Well, it’s really more complex than that. I can’t eliminate sin. I take positive action (voting) to try and reduce it. All sin makes one fall short of salvation, but all sin is not the same in this age. Some sins have a more serious impact than others.
I know it seems like I’m compromising my values. Let’s make the distinction clearer. Let’s say the Republican is an unrepentant drunk but he’s pro-life and pro-marriage (gay “marriage” isn’t marriage). Do I withhold my vote because he’s a sinner?
Let’s say the Republican is pro-life but wobbly on gay marriage. The Democrat, on the other hand, is adamantly pro-abort and gay rights. Do I sit it out because my candidate isn’t good enough?
I’m talking only about general elections here—not primaries. In primaries, I’m obviously going to support the person who best fits my morality. I’m not talking about that. I’m saying we’re in a general election season where the only options are bad or worse. What if the worse is very, very bad. Sit it out?
There’s just as much chance that there are Democrat disruptors (paid or otherwise) out here as there are GOPe. We could expect that the Dems would set an incredibly high ideological bar, then bludgeon anyone who doesn’t meet it into silence.
But the thing is we (the genuine Conservatives here) really aren’t arguing about ideology, but rather political mechanics. Whether the best path forward for Conservatism is within the Republican Party, or in opposition for it.
There are good arguments on both sides, and it’s a worthwhile discussion to have.
“Therefore, you must win elections with candidates who reject abortion.”
Yes. You must. But what if your only two choices are a candidate who supports some abortion restrictions and a 100% pro-abort? Do you take positive action to defeat the pro-abort (by voting) or do you allow others to make that choice, knowing that more abortions are likely to result—especially since you’re removing an anti-abortion vote from the election?
It’s a bad situation to be sure, but I think one should try and do the best one can with what’s politically achievable at the moment. And please keep in mind that I’m going to try and get an even better candidate next time, because I want that 100% pro-life guy.
I’m trying to remember whether Roberts represents Kansas or Washington, DC.
You see the GOPe as some monolithic force. As if it is a “borg” of science fiction shows.
There is no one person, and not even a group of people who get to make decisions for the conservative movement or for the Republican Party.
When you lash out against Pat Roberts for something that happened in Mississippi it is not much different than Hamas or ISIS beheading a journalist who has no power over any military operation.
Roberts does not control and does not have time to be involved with the financial decisions of the Republican races in other States. Roberts was NOT involved in the stuff that Thad Cochran pulled.
There are countless “Tea Party” Candidates out there who are not as conservative as Pat Roberts.
We would, most of us, be overjoyed if everyone in the US Senate was AT LEAST as conservative as Pat Roberts.
You?
You want revenge!
Crucify HIM
Crucify HIM!
And you know not what you do.
Agreed.
Like I said, ANYONE who supports abortion is not trustworthy.
Not voting for him is to vote for Marsha Coakley. She is truly evil.
I can’t afford to feed a Pony. How about a Gold Fish?
I have nothing against you personally
But asking JR to discipline folks here unless they are open libtards has a sordid harpy history of cliques run wild and cult of personality and anti freeper exodus(s)
and other groupthink stumbles no one except old timers will comprehend
Trust me on this
Just defend your position and fight back
Don’t ask Fresno to do your heavy lifting.
“The GOP sends their sycophants out to keep us from getting our crap together. This thread is a case example. Add up the time we collectively spend debating the most basic points and principles of conservatism.
That is tens of thousands of hours a year collectively on FR alone. And it’s all time well spent for those intent on keeping us powerless.”
Norm, you are an egotistical and presumptuous and PARANOID and dishonest fool.
NOBODY “sends me out” — I am very conservative but very independent in what I do, what I say and the actions I take.
I am a self employed professional in the business world and in the political realm I decide what I want to do and how to do, and I have ALWAYS been that way.
As I have tried to instruct you on many past occasions, your failure as a debater (and as a person) is that you “lump” people together and you assume and presume “marching orders” or “connections” or some kind of conspiracy or group think, and you do this REFLEXIVELY every single debate you get into.
NO Norm.
Grow up! It is entirely possible for highly intelligent, moral, decent and politically experienced and successful people to think that YOU Norm are full of yourself.
That I think that YOU Norm, are full of yourself and destructive does not, in any way, make me a mouthpiece for any other person or organization.
I vehemently disagree with you Norm.
That does not make me a liberal.
That does not make me a moderate.
I am a conservative and I have the battle scars to prove it.
I simply know that you are wrong. I know this with every fiber of my being.
Got that?
I agree with you.
But I saw nasty stuff on FR against EVERY one of the conservative presidential candidates last time around.
I do not like the term “haters” as I do not think simple criticism is hate. However? There is hate on these threads for EVERY single conservative out there, from people who claim to be “conservative”.
I agree.
The “save all the babies” crowd has blood on THEIR hands.
There would not be anywhere near as many abortions if the “no compromise” crowd was smarter.
In Kansas, I watched Judy Brown and Nellie Gray kill Parental Consent legislation and Late Term Abortion legislation.
They had supported Parental Consent in other States, but politically, in Kansas, they were fighting an NRLC affiliate and that was more important to them.
Then, on the late term abortion matter? We finally got that passed. It was the ONLY time Tiller was taken to Court for his murders. Unfortunately we did not win in Court and the backlash cost AG Kline his law license.
However? The OR and “No Compromise” crowd relished the charges against Tiller, even though they fought AGAINST the legislation that brought Tiller to court in the first place.
That would be cheaper, I freely admit :)
My point is that I don’t think the GOP is changeable. I’m not willing to throw away good conservatives on both sides of this debate so what I wish (with or without a pony) is that we would cut our losses and get to work starting an actual rightist party in this county instead of pretending the one that Reince Preibus runs will do the job. It won’t.
It will be hard work. It will take years. But we have to stay somewhere.
There has been much talk of Ronald Reagan on this thread. I invoke him now:
“If not us, who? And if not now, when?”
When will the excuse-making stop and when will WE create a political entity which will fight Democrats and once and for all bury the “lesser evil” argument?
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