We need a new word for this! Thanks nickcarraway. Modern history, but I don't want to lose track of this, so I'm adding the GGG keyword.
Posted on 05/02/2016 2:27:01 PM PDT by nickcarraway
Williams single-handedly shot down four Russian fighters, a record-breaking feat never recognized or even known until recently
Retired U.S. Navy Cpt. E. Royce Williams will never forget November 18, 1952.
“Here came four of them from the front side all firing and the others were coming around from the other side…We came in head on,” Williams remembered. “I saw bullets go over me and under me then over me… So the fight went on and on and on.”
Williams, who fought in the Korean War, single-handedly shot down four Russian fighters – a record-breaking feat never recognized or even known until recently.
That’s because Williams’ achievement was kept 'top secret' for more than 50 years.
“I didn't tell anyone, including my wife and my brother who’s a naval aviator. No one,” Williams said. “I had a meeting with President Eisenhower and I didn’t even talk about that.”
The weather was bad that day with low clouds, heavy wind and snow, but that didn’t keep Williams from doing his duty.
In his F9F-5 Panther Williams took on seven superior MiG-15s in a fierce dogfight lasting roughly 35 minutes.
“When I take into account the level capability of the airplane it was sort of like, God giving David a task of Goliath – only I had seven Goliaths.”
“The aviation historians, the knowledgeable ones, will tell you without a blemish that this event by Royce was unmatched in the Korean War, was unmatched in the Vietnam War, unmatched ever since then. It stands alone all by itself as a really amazing situation,” Rear Admiral Doniphan B. Shelton (Ret.) said. “He was never recognized properly for what he did on this one day…We hope…he will be properly recognized sometime soon.”
Last year Shelton initiated the request to have Williams’ achievement re-reviewed through Congressman Duncan Hunter's office along with the endorsements of two four star-admirals, Hays and Hayward.
“There’s nothing wrong with the Silver Star that they gave him, believe me, that’s a wonderful award, but it’s not what he earned,” Shelton explained Shelton said if the proper record was known from the beginning Williams would have received the Navy Cross or Medal of Honor.
“I am the only person to have ever shot down four jets in one mission...and on my first mission at that...so I don't know, maybe that qualifies,” Williams said about the possibility of a medal. “People say thank you for your service, I say thank you for letting me serve.”
Now, Williams, who has been dubbed ‘the forgotten hero of the forgotten war’, may just be a little closer to being remembered.
Supporters of Williams and his story are creating a nationwide campaign to gather 100,000 signatures for a petition to demand a re-review for recognition.
They are launching the petition on Saturday May 14th at the San Diego Ride for Vets.
There was a documentary about the Russian pilots and how many of ours they shot down. They way outnumbered our kills. But no one knew it. This man is a hero. Surprised he kept his secret so long.
“........the American public would have demanded........”
Haven’t times changed? Today, a mere 64 years later our government doesn’t give a crap what we demand.
I propose a change in the law. In a Republic you have a duty to tell it all to the citizenry who paid for the expedition after 50 years. 50 years is enough time for the government to get its shiite together about what missions were carried out.
I don't care if its about how we accidentally dropped nuclear bombs on South Carolina, or infected civilian populations with specially fitted Chevy Bel Airs, or the freaks from Jekyll island hired a patsy to kill JFK. That is the balance point for a free society with national security needs. 50 years. Just as the right age for humans to explore sex is 18. It just is.
I agree. It may have been top secret that we knew that Anthony Fokker had developed a way to fire a machine gun through the propeller blades of WWI era biplanes, which was a big deal, but...it is laughable to think our knowledge of when and how we knew, and what we planned to do about it would have any bearing on anything today.
So, that is one extreme.
On the other hand, what if we had intelligence in OIF that told us where to find Saddam and his associates that had been delivered by an asset who might still be alive and working today? Obviously, giving that up could be problematic today.
So that is the other extreme.
Where do we stick that pin along the continuum where one side is okay and the other side isn’t?
I would agree there are standards that need to be set.
However, we MUST keep in mind that a person who was 20 years of age 50 years ago could quite possibly be alive and open to retaliation at the age of 70. If not him, his family. People have long memories.
That has to be taken into account.
We need a new word for this! Thanks nickcarraway. Modern history, but I don't want to lose track of this, so I'm adding the GGG keyword.
"People say thank you for your service, I say thank you for letting me serve."
“...wondered why they were called “Russian” fighters instead of “Soviet” fighters. I don’t think that was a mistake.”
We’ve always used “Russian” and “Soviet” pretty much interchangeably.
Things are classified for a reason, but also they have declassification dates for a reason. There are no secrets from that period that should remain classified except for humint. Many exploits from WWII were detailed in numerous venues long before they were officially declassified.
The vast majority of docs that remain classified were marked OADR—Originating Agency’s Determination Required. That’s kind of hard to get when the OA is long defunct. That caveat is no longer allowed, and the standard classification period is 25 years—plenty long enough to protect most secrets.
Why? Virtually every achievement of our aviators throughout WW-I, II and beyond have been matters of record..........
It says it was kept top secret for fifty years, during that time he didn’t talk about it. Now he can.
It says it was classified for fifty years, and that time is up.
Dang guys, thanks for posting these links. Never heard of this.
Innovative, look up “Cold War shootdowns” and note how many planes were shot down and people killed by commie marxist cockoaches. They nearly always got away with it. And still do as witnessed by the South Korean ship sunk by the nork submarine.
“The aviation historians, the knowledgeable ones, will tell you without a blemish that this event by Royce was unmatched in the Korean War, was unmatched in the Vietnam War, unmatched ever since then. It stands alone all by itself as a really amazing situation,” Rear Admiral Doniphan B. Shelton (Ret.) said. “He was never recognized properly for what he did on this one day…We hope…he will be properly recognized sometime soon.”
Regarding the question of whether or not he should have spoken about this event, even after more than 60 years, I'm going to make some assumptions here based on information contained in the article:
1) The article states that his achievement "was kept top secret for more than 50 years." It is now 63 years since this event took place, so at some point prior to this, the incident was declassified.
2.)There is a retired Rear Admiral stating that his actions that day should now be properly recognized, so apparently the Admiral feels there is no longer a security classification issue involved here.
From EO 13526
Sec. 1.4. Classification Categories. Information shall not be considered for classification unless its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause identifiable or describable damage to the national security in accordance with section 1.2 of this order, and it pertains to one or more of the following:
(a) military plans, weapons systems, or operations;
(b) foreign government information;
(c) intelligence activities (including covert action), intelligence sources or methods, or cryptology;
(d) foreign relations or foreign activities of the United States, including confidential sources;
(e) scientific, technological, or economic matters relating to the national security;
(f) United States Government programs for safeguarding nuclear materials or facilities;
(g) vulnerabilities or capabilities of systems, installations, infrastructures, projects, plans, or protection services relating to the national security; or
(h) the development, production, or use of weapons of mass destruction.
You got your wish. The DoD already uses a system that automatically declassifies information after a set amount of time unless the organization controlling that information can make a case that it shouldn’t be released. I can’t speak to any of the other agencies.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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