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Research - Vattel & the meaning of the Constitutional term "Natural Born Citizen"
http://www.loc.gov/index.html ^ | 5/12/2010 | many

Posted on 05/12/2010 12:36:53 PM PDT by rxsid

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 from the U.S. Constitution states:

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: certifigate; constitution; framers; naturalborncitizen; nbc; vattel
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To: RegulatorCountry

Okay, I’ll bite.

The French people raised the money for the statue itself through private donations. It was called “Liberty Enlightening the World.” The Emma Lazarus poem has completely changed the meaning of the statue for most people from the original intent.

What’s your point?

I fail to see how the SOL of 1876 has much relevance to the 1780s.


121 posted on 05/19/2010 8:15:26 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (When buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.)
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To: Sherman Logan
The French people raised the money for the statue itself through private donations. It was called “Liberty Enlightening the World.” The Emma Lazarus poem has completely changed the meaning of the statue for most people from the original intent.

Why were the people of France so compelled by the concept of Liberty, to have commissioned that gigantic statute as a gift to the United States? What debt of gratitude did the people of France feel they owed us?

Remember, the comment of yours that prompted my reply dealt with Emerich de Vattel and the French Revolution.

122 posted on 05/19/2010 8:20:37 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
The treatise that spells out legalities as far as citizenship under a constitutional republic was by all accounts quite popular with those same Founders.

And which treatise might that be? Certainly couldn't be Law of Nations, since there was no constitutional republic on the planet when Vattel died.

The US created the very first written constitution and therefore the first constitutional republic.

Vattel was writing for a European audience. The British government of the time, for all its flaws, was more free than any European government with the arguable exception of some of the Swiss cantons and the Netherlands. Or perhaps Poland, if you were an aristocrat. Of course, the Polish aristocrats were at the time in the process of destroying their nation with that freedom.

123 posted on 05/19/2010 8:27:27 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (When buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

The United States was the result of the first successful revolution against the monarchical/aristocratic Old Regime that ruled most of the world.

The French apparently felt they owed a debt to Americans as their revolution was in some sense a followup to ours. Although theirs, IMO, went wildly off the tracks due to it being based on a completely different philosophical basis from ours.

I realize you think you’re leading me into a logical trap with these questions, but I really wish you’d jump ahead to the gotcha, as I have other things to do.


124 posted on 05/19/2010 9:11:15 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (When buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.)
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To: rxsid
Photobucket
125 posted on 05/19/2010 10:56:34 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1

http://research.history.org/DigitalLibrary/VirginiaGazette/VGImagePopup.cfm?ID=3851&Res=HI&CFID=6242639&CFTOKEN=35463770


126 posted on 05/19/2010 10:57:58 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid; El Gato; Red Steel; BP2

Some account of the life, writings, and speeches of William Pinkney

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=OnFKAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Wheaton&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a&hl=en&cd=2#v=onepage&q=Law%20of%20Nations&f=false

Lots of Vattel and Law of Nations.Chap 212 discussed.


127 posted on 05/19/2010 11:54:59 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid

Elements of international law: with a sketch of the history of the science
By Henry Wheaton

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=umued5KGUSAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Wheaton&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a&hl=en&cd=3#v=snippet&q=%20native%20born&f=false


128 posted on 05/20/2010 12:06:44 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid

History of the law of nations in Europe and America: from the earliest times ...
By Henry Wheaton

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=lqgBAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=related:HARVARD32044011218310&as_brr=1&client=firefox-a&hl=en#v=snippet&q=citizen&f=false


129 posted on 05/20/2010 12:15:21 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: Sherman Logan
Vattel advocated a constitution, the legislature and the independent judiciary in Law Of Nations, Sherman. He laid out the groundwork for a constitutional republic, and the United States is a constitutional republic. The lack of such in Europe at that time, particularly in the three hundred or so states of "Germany" is a topic upon which Vattel spcifically commented. You really should attempt to understand the work you're dismissing.
130 posted on 05/20/2010 3:46:12 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Sherman Logan
I realize you think you’re leading me into a logical trap with these questions, but I really wish you’d jump ahead to the gotcha, as I have other things to do.

Run along, then, I certainly don't want to detain you from Very Important Things, lol.

131 posted on 05/20/2010 3:47:35 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: rxsid

1773 Vattel French Edition

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=8Ns_AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Les%20citoyens%20naturels&f=false


132 posted on 05/20/2010 5:34:42 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid

1773 Vattel French Edition

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=8Ns_AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Les%20citoyens%20naturels&f=false


133 posted on 05/20/2010 5:46:20 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: rxsid

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=96IGBwarCGsC&pg=RA1-PA286&dq=Principles+of+the+Law+of+Nature,+applied+to+the+Conduct+and+Affairs+of+nations+and+sovereigns+%281760%29+Vattel&hl=en&ei=fS71S_eWNcHGrAf135G4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Principles%20of%20the%20Law%20of%20Nature%2C%20applied%20to%20the%20Conduct%20and%20Affairs%20of%20nations%20and%20sovereigns%20%281760%29%20Vattel&f=false


134 posted on 05/20/2010 5:47:21 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: RegulatorCountry; rxsid; El Gato; Red Steel; BP2

http://books.google.com.ph/books?id=3rEwG7Gd53wC&pg=PA104&dq=Principles+of+the+Law+of+Nature,+applied+to+the+Conduct+and+Affairs+of+nations+and+sovereigns+%281760%29+Vattel&hl=en&ei=EzD1S4yDLIK-rAf26aTiCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

A 1760 Review of the 1760 English Edition Vattel..The Monthly review, Volume 23

By Ralph Griffiths


135 posted on 05/20/2010 6:02:45 AM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: Spaulding
By ignoring his ineligibility we are invalidating the protections guaranteed by the Declaration and the Constitution.

Outstanding post!

136 posted on 05/20/2010 8:23:47 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM, where are you?)
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To: El Gato; rxsid; BP2; Spaulding
You guys do some simply amazing work.

I'd give anything to see anyone of you on a major news show debating this topic....you would put the “professionals” to absolute shame.

137 posted on 05/20/2010 8:37:46 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM, where are you?)
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To: Uncle Chip

I meant to include you in this post too!

See #137


138 posted on 05/20/2010 8:39:07 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM, where are you?)
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To: Sherman Logan
The US created the very first written constitution and therefore the first constitutional republic

We had a written constitution, before the Constitution was written. But there are plenty of written constitutions which greatly predate the US, or even the settlement of the Americas.

For example, the Swiss Federal Charter of 1291 which was admittedly only of 3 cantons, but it grew, eventually becoming modern Switzerland.

139 posted on 05/20/2010 8:40:31 AM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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To: rxsid; bushpilot1; All

Photobucket
Quintilianus, Institutio Oratoria,
Book 1, Chapter VIII, translation by Patsall (1774).

There have been at least five different English translations of this work and this sentence.
The first was by Guthrie in 1756. Since then, there have been translations by Patsall in 1774 (ABOVE).

140 posted on 05/20/2010 9:09:08 AM PDT by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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