Posted on 04/17/2007 9:54:01 AM PDT by KosmicKitty
Cho Seung-Hui Was Inspired By Islam. His Suicide Note Signed Ismail-AX
Just heard it on Fox News. Cho Seung-Hui left a suicide note and signed it as Ismael-AX (or Ismail-AX as the media published just now). Ismael is the Arabic for Ishmael the father of the Arabs, the son of Abraham and the one that Muhammad the founder of Islam favored above Isaac the father of the Jews. This terror seems to have indeed been motivated by Islam. Muslims believe that it was Ishmael that Abraham almost sacrificed on the mount of Moriah rather than Isaac. The feast of sacrifice, Eid Al Adha, celebrated by Muslims, celebrates that event by slaughtering sheep. Ismail-AX definitely slaughtered many innocent people like sheep yesterday. ??
I will post more info on this as I get it. I hope the media gets the Islamic connection here. I am sure what they will find is a story of a convert to Islam who was convinced that his only salvation is go to Jihad. He is a perfect recruit; His South Korean heritage would make it easy for Muslims to deflect any charges of Islamic terrorism and, with the aid of the media and the PC government, dismiss it as another psycho attack, similar to what they did at Trolley Square in Utah.
My husband just e-mailed me this.
.
He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers. (NIV, Genesis 16)
I would say that he was familiar with the Koranic version of the life of Ibrahim. In it Ibrahim uses an axe to destroy the false idols that the people are worshipping.
Apparently the killer felt that the VT students were degenerate. In killing them he was, perhaps, merely acting to 'cleanse' the world of falsity in the same way Ibrahim had. Only he did not see himself as the active agent, but only as the tool. The axe, not the wielder of the axe.
I got this off a web site with Islamic stories on it Ibrahim confronts his people and rejects their idols
He left his father after he lost hope to convert him to the right path, and directed his efforts towards the people of the town, but they rejected his call and threatened him. By Allah, he said, I shall plot a plan to destroy their idols. He knew that a big celebration was coming soon, where everybody would leave town for a big feast on the riverbank.
After making sure that nobody was left in town, Ibrahim went towards the temple armed with an ax. Statues of all shapes and sizes were sitting there adorned with decorations. Plates of food were offered to them, but the food was untouched. "Well, why don't you eat? The food is getting cold." He said to the statues, joking; then with his ax he destroyed all the statues except one, the biggest of them. He hung the ax around its neck and left.
How big was the shock when the people entered the temple! They gathered inside watching in awe their gods broken in pieces. They wondered who might have done this? Then they all remembered that the young Ibrahim was talking evil of their idols.
They brought him to the temple and asked him: "Are you the one who has done this to our gods?" Ibrahim said: "No, this statue, the biggest of them has done it. Ask them if they can speak." "You know well that these idols don't speak!" They said impatiently. "Then how come you worship things that can neither speak nor see, nor even fend for themselves? Have you lost your minds?"
They kept silent for a while, for he got a point there. Their minds and their senses were telling them that the Truth is with Ibrahim, but their pride prevented them to accept it, and reject the idols they were worshipping for generations. This they thought would be total defeat. They started yelling at him and shouting: "Burn him! Burn him! Take revenge for your gods !"
It goes on, God saves Ibrahim from a fire that priests make to burn him for destroying the idols, etc. Amazing. A strong ROP connection after all
Oh my goodness, another violent act inspired by Islam!
It’s hard to say what this is, but I know one thing for sure, Islam might not create killers, but killers are drawn to Islam. You see it time and time again, they are people who have problems, seek out Islam and then people die.
Wonder if he had a Koran in his room and studied Islam??
Pray for W and Va Tech
Add an ‘e’ to Koran and what do you get? Korean!
AHA!!!!
Only two things appear to turn people who are mentally weak or unstable to become homidical spree killers - Prozac (and other similar drugs) and Islam. You could argue whether people were already capable of being mass murderers and the drugs or Islam just pushed them over the edge. But there is no way to remove these two factors as being common denominators from every mass killing. Before Islam started killing in the U.S. in 1993, it was only psychotropic pharmaceuticals which caused unstable people to become murderers. Now, its a toss up.
This may also be a reference to a specific person he had a problem with. There are a lot of references to people with this name at VaTech.
Well, I do believe that islamic influence or not, this kid had a lot of baggage.
I’m waiting for more to come out, but the Ishmael reference is interesting.
I’m interested in reading the full letter. The parts that leaked make me wonder if he was at DU...
I haven't see the leaked parts, but if it sounds like he's from DU, I'll assume that every other word is the F-bomb.
“They said Cho also died with the words Ismail Ax in red ink on one of his arms.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-070417vtech-shootings,1,176236.story?track=rss
Yes, and some of us took a lot of heat for even suggesting such a thing. Looks like there might be something more here than just a disgruntled guy.
I did a search on “Ismail” and “ax”, dug around a bit, and found this. It is from a book called “Hajj” by Dr. Ali Shariati. It relates Ibrahim’s destruction of idols, and there is a line that refers to taking an axe and “sacrficing your Ismail.” I don’t know if this is allegorical and meant to refer to spiritual struggle, or whether it is something that is encourage to be acted upon in the world. Here also is one of the chapters:
The Battle Front
“God is Great”, how meaningful! The army has arrived; all have arms (pebbles) in their hands and are ready to fire. When you reach the first idol, do not shoot - but pass by. When you reach the second idol, do not shoot but pass by. When you reach the third idol, do not pass by, but shoot!Why? Those wise and experienced teachers usually tell us to quietly and gradually take turns in a sequential way but here Ibrahim is the Commander and orders:
“SHOOT THE LAST ONE IN YOUR FIRST ATTACK”! “DID YOU SHOOT?” “YES” “HOW MANY TIMES?” “SEVEN!” “ARE YOU SURE THEY HIT THE TARGET?” “I AM SURE.” “DID YOU HIT THE BELLY OR THE LEGS?” “NONE!” “DID YOU HIT HIS BACK?” “NO.” “DID YOU HIT HIS HEAD AND FACE?” “YES, I DID.” “WELL DONE!”
The fight is over. When the last idol falls, the first and second ones can not resist. The last idol supports the other two. After leaving the front, you have nothing more to do except make the sacrifice Then you may announce and celebrate your victory! Take off your ihram put on your desired clothing, cut your hair, use perfume if you want and embrace your spouse. You are free now! You are a man! Mina is conquered by you and Satan is defeated. What am I saying? You are Ibrahim now! You are in the position to sacrifice your Ismail for Him.
http://www.al-islam.org/hajj/shariati/21.htm
* * * * *
Maybe a stretch and maybe coincidental. Maybe not.
In the Wikipedia article on Shariati, there is a link to another article, “Ali Shariati, Islamic Fundamentalist, Marxist Ideologue, and Sufi Mystic.”
In my own opinion it’s way too early to have an answer on what motivated this killer. So I offer this FWIW.
If this is true, we now know why the big delay in announcing his name and were did he come from.
A question for Tiger Likes Rooster:
Are there Koreans with Manchurian ancestors? This guy was very tall compared to most Koreans and to me had a Manchurian appearance versus Korean?
Here’s something from a book called “Ishmael” by DEN Southworth-——
As to what brought me back to the neighborhood, Hannah, it was to do some business for the judge, and to buy some stock for the farm. But there, my dear! that boy has slipped out, and is cutting the wood; I’ll go and do it for him,” said Reuben, as the sound of Ishmael’s ax fell upon his ears.
Hannah arose and followed Gray to the door, and there before it stood Ishmael, chopping away at random, upon the pile of wood, his cheeks flushed with fever and his eyes wild with excitement.
“Hannah, he is ill; he is very ill; he doesn’t well know what he is about,” said Reuben, taking the ax from the boy’s hand.
“Ishmael, Ishmael, my lad, come in; you are not well enough to work,” said Hannah anxiously.
He was an English major... that makes some sense, I think.
I’m withholding judgment until more of the contents of the letter are disclosed. If this was somehow inspired by Islam, there will be more evidence than something he wrote on his arm.
You can bet his computer is at the FBI laboratory.
Ludlum used to write great mysteries similiar to this before he came out of the closet in 2004 and an admitted liberal in drag as a conservative author.
We might hear something ....
Obviously not. :)
Rough night re sleep. My wife didn’t feel good and was awake from 1 am on.
Life would be so much easier if people lik this just had horns
Personal Disorders, Agresivve behavior and self-mutilation, ECT, Substance-related disorders, Sexual Disorders, Forensic Psychiatry, Sleep Disorders
From the Turkish Association of Psychopharmacology website:
President-elect:
Professor Ismail AK, M.D. Head, Department of Psychiatry, KTU School of Medicine, Trabzon, Turkey
Ismail AK is Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at Head, Department of Psychiatry, KTU School of Medicine, Trabzon, Turkey
He is an experienced on clinical psychopharmacology of schizophrenia and bipolar disorders.
Dr. Ismail Ak is one of the authors of an article about patients with mental disorders, psychotic features, etc.:
As regards pharmacotherapies, 354 (50.2%) were given antidepressants. . . . Among antidepressants, Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) were 72.8%. . . .
This is an abstract of an article co-written by Dr. ISMAIL AK:
Even though all psychiatric disorders do not have the same potential with regard to committing a crime, the number of individuals having psychiatric disorders is gradually going up depending on the increase of crimes and violent behaviors committed in a society. . . . The relation between existence of psychiatric disorder and crime behavior has been significantly emphasized in several earlier studies. In conclusion, it is notable that the rates of committing crime for the individuals with psychiatric disorders are on the rise.
Dr. Ismail Ak is apparently one of the world's leading experts on the psychiatry of antisocial and suicidal behavior, psychotic and bipolar disorders, psychopharmacological therapy, etc.
The young man had been noticed to be disturbed and had been referred to counseling. Dr. Ismail Ak is an expert and author in the particular field most directly related to the guy's disorder.
So it's possible that the writing on the guy's arm said
ISMAIL AK
and the K was written in a way that people *thought* it said
ISMAIL AX
That seems more likely to me than a connection to Moby Dick or to Islamic terrorism.
This is an angle the investigators need to pursue with the school's counseling service, the killer's computer, and Dr. Ismail Ak himself.
I wonder about you.
Why?
Just do.
Those Columbine kids
liked Doom. Were they "inspired by"
videogame play?
There should be many whose ancestors are Manchurian. There were not a small migrant inflow of Manchurians into Korea over centuries. Also Manchurians and other Northern nomadic tribes frequently invaded Korea.
A majority of Koreans are also of Northern Asian heritage. As a result, they are quite similar to Manchurians.
However, many young Koreans are pretty tall compared with their parents. It is not uncommon to see 6' Korean guys these days.
Thanks,...could be....
In this AP article:
http://story.news.ask.com//article/20070418/D8OJ5AHO0.html
there is the following quote regarding the suicide notes:
“He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.”
The way that sentence is written it implies that his religion is not Christianity, but it doesn’t say what it is. This is the first reference I have seen that indicates that Cho had a religion. Maybe the sentence is poorly written and meant to say that his religion was Christianity, but it leaves it ambiguous. It is a piece of the puzzle for those who would like to understand his thought processes.
You might want to consider that we do not know all the information. We are not forensic analysts, we do not study symbology or iconography.
And do not forget, “Ismail” is Hebrew for “Ishmael.” Ishmael was the son of Abraham, or “Ibrahim” before it was changed. In Islamic tradition, it was Ishmael who was supposed to be sacrificed by Abraham, not Isaac. I don’t get why everyone is talking about Abraham, or Ibrahim.
I didn’t mean to say that I thought he had anything to do with any particular religion. I just thought the statement in the article was odd and wondered what it meant.
Cho was obviously a psychopath and that is all the explanation needed on why he did what he did.
FWIW, you’re an idiot for spreading rumors.
FWIW
You’re an idiot for reading & posting to rumors.
I’m starting to see a lot of blogs pop up with the speculation that Ismail Ax is actually referring to a on-line game nickname, something from WoW (World of Warcraft.)
That seems more logical...I wish we could step outside and see this is just a sad case of a kid who fell thru the cracks of the mental health system and snapped. He was a loner his whole life, he was teased and he cracked. I find that more plausible than wild assertions this is a terrorist attack in the name of Islam.
Rush Limbaugh threw his two cents in saying if this kid had an ideology he would be a liberal because he hated the rich... That's like saying Tim McVeigh was a conservative because he was a military man. We should stop politicizing this and focus on why Cho wasn't recognized as having a serious mental health issue.
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