Skip to comments.The Plot Thickens: Obama's Birth Certificate and HRS Section 338-18
Posted on 07/12/2008 9:24:08 AM PDT by Raquel
I have previously requested a copy of Barack Obama's birth certificate. Janice Okubo, Public Information Office of the Communications office of the State of Hawaii, responding on July 3, has chosen to refuse to provide a copy of the birth certificate. This blog consists of three parts. First, I quote Ms. Okubo's letter, dated July 3, 2008, verbatim. Her letter responds to my inquiry under the Freedom of Information Act. Although Ms. Okubo points out that the Freedom of Information applies to the federal government and not the states, most states, including Hawaii, have similar statutes. With respect to birth certificates, though, there is a separate section of the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) that Ms. Okubo cites, HRS § 338-18. The link that Ms. Okubo provides in her hard copy snail mail letter respecting § 338-18 was dead when I tried to use it, but I obtained a copy of HRS § 338-18 from the Lexis-Nexis data base available from New York University's Bobst library. In addition, I obtained information on Hawaii's Uniform Information Practices Act from the State of Hawaii Website. In the second part of this blog, I respond to Ms. Okubo by drafting two letters, one a response to Chiyome Fukino, Director of Health, Ms. Okubo's superior, with a copy to Ms. Okubo and Governor Linda Lingle (R-HI), and also a letter to Barack Obama requesting that he send me a letter authorizing me to represent him in obtaining a copy of his birth certificate in the interest of avoiding accusations of political gamesmanship and manipulation. In the third section I copy the relevant sections from § 338-18 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes for your reference. I also quote from the State of Hawaii Website about its "Uniform Information Law" booklet.
(Excerpt) Read more at mitchell-langbert.blogspot.com ...
Very Interesting and Bookmarked
Applaud his efforts and tenacity.
But without Obama signing an authorization, nobody can get his BC.
“If you are applying for a certificate on behalf of someone else, you must provide an original letter signed by that person authorizing the release of their certificate to you. “
The real question is, why doesn’t Obama authorize some responsible journalists to get his BC directly from the Hawaii government, that way we would know for sure, it’s the real deal.
Ping — since you’ve been following this closely.
More useless pursuit of a dead subject:
He is “natural born citizen” under two provisions of Title 8, US Code. “Natural born” citizenship can be gained in many ways other than being born here. He qualifies under two provisions of the Code. If reading, start with sec 1401 and go from there. I’m an attorney. Trust me on this one.
Secondly, no one is really requesting a “birth certificate.” What they are really asking for is an extract of Birth Records, and that takes many forms. I now have three of my own, all issued at different times by New York State. One is a 1948 typed one. One is issued in 1965 with a raised seal, and is completely different. The third was issued in 1998, and is completely different again.
Finally, birth records are often considered health records and therefore exempt from disclosure.
This is BS. Hillary and a dozen other opponents would have checked this years ago.
This is idiocy that keeps us from the real issues.
I don’t agree. This is important. Why did they provide a fake? Why not just hand it over if there’s nothing to hide?
We can pursue this as well as the other issues.
If you are applying for a certificate on behalf of someone else, you must provide an original letter signed by that person authorizing the release of their certificate to you.
Sounds to me like the standard and proper way to do this is to forge an authorization letter. :-)
According to Michelle, Obama’s mom WAS single when he was born.
Normally, I’d agree...this isn’t really a 4-star issue. Its puzzling that rather than answer it or simply declare the birth certificate out and in the open....we are left to question more intensely.
I suspect that if enough digging is done...we find that he is born in Vancouver...NOT Hawaii, and he is still a US citizen by reason of the mother being such. I suspect this is something that the family never talked about and really seemed to “hide” in some fashion. I don’t think mom or dad was happy with their daughter coming up with her first real boyfriend...and the guy is some dude from Africa...and the daughter is preg. Most of us would act the same way if this had been our daughter.
The only scenario I could see emerging where citizenship would be very questionable....is where we find that mom had issues....never delivered....and adopted this child in Canada.
The more one reads of Stanley Ann Durham...the more of a image of a very naive and misguided young lady who simply kept walking from one mess into another. As much as she put into various notions of a socialist world at hand...the 3rd world visit to Indonesia and the lack of any worldly impact by herself and her perceived agenda...probably left her with a negative view of everything accomplished.
Your comment is exceptionally well thought out and well developed.
I’ll repeat it here with a few additions, if I may:
“The more one reads of Stanley Ann Durham...the more of a image of a very naive and misguided young lady who simply kept walking from one mess into another. As much as she put into various notions of a socialist world at hand...the 3rd world visit to Indonesia and the lack of any worldly impact by herself and her perceived agenda...probably left her (AND HER SON) with a negative view of everything (AMERICA) accomplished.
I still find it odd that Obama is so hush-hush about his birth records. I think it's an honest request by those of us considering whether to vote for him. Obama could put any debate to rest just be authorizing the release of birth records.
Wasn't it President Bush's military/health records that placed him at odds with Dan Rather and CBS news? (Not that I'm trying to follow his/their lead.)
I do not agree that “other issues” are being put aside in favor of this one as you assert. It's still an issue worth investigating. It's o.k. to put the pressure on Obama to release records, let's see if he has the courage to do so.
John Kerry refused to release his private/health records, and that decision didn't serve him well.
1. There is something in Obama's birth certificate that he does not want released, e.g., his birth religion was Muslim, his birth name was Barry, his parents were not married, etc.
Note, a "birth certificate" contains much more information than a "certificate of live birth." Obama has not released either. There was a jpg image of a "certificate of live birth" posted on Kos, but it is widely believed to be photoshopped.
2. Obama wants to keep the issue alive to distract from more serious issues. If this is the case, as soon as some other, provable scandal starts to hit the MSM, Obama will suddenly release a real copy of his certificate of live birth and use it as a straw-man to discredit whatever else is in the news.
"Oh for goodness sake, here is my certificate of live birth. All of these ridiculous claims being made against me are a right wing attempt to take attention away from hope and change. By the way, did I mention that I'm black?"
Of course we know that Obamanation is a crypto-Marxist pretending to be a left of center moderate and to the extent that he can, will do all in his power to destroy traditional concepts of freedom and liberty. We need to continue to expose the dangerous threat that his candidacy represents.
But to give up on REQUIRING him to prove that he is an Art II Sec. 1 natural born citizen is to give up on the constitution. There are only 2 constitutional requirements for president and we should insist that he abide by both of them. This is not a subsidiary matter. It is of vital importance to a constitutional republic. As of this moment I believe that he is, but that fradulent birth certificate does NOT prove it. Were he to win (God forbid!!) and it is proven that he is not constitutionally natural born, the resultant fallout could trigger a civil war. Lets get that out of the way now, and most of us will simply drop this and move on to other things.
According to conservative commentators, the Democrat presidential hopeful's home planet is governed by the Central Planning Committee made primarily of the State Board of Expropriators and Liquidators, who offer prayers and sacrificial offerings to a Blessed Taxperson in hopes of entering the Divine Pork Barrel upon death, and fear an afterlife spent in a Subsidized Housing For the Common Good they legislated and financed with public money.
This explains Barack Obama campaign's earlier secrecy over his birth site, especially if we consider the outdated constitutional requirement that presidents must be "natural-born" U.S. citizens.
Looking back, one can only wonder at the mainstream media's unblinking acceptance of Obama as a 100% Earthling, despite even such obvious clues as his big earlobes, a supernatural fundraising ability, and his campaign logo that resembles the emblem of the Ferengi Alliance.
Other early warning signs included Obama's ties to such known Ferengis as Rezko and Khalidi, his clearly alien speech patterns and intonation, as well as his extraterrestrial campaign slogans referencing some mysterious "hope and change" and "yes we can," which is the official motto of the State Board of Expropriators and Liquidators in Obama's homeworld. But perhaps the biggest giveaway was a glaring lack of understanding of human customs and values by both Barack Obama and his Klingon wife Michelle.
Hahahahahahaha. That's a good one.
My suspicion is that there is information on his “original” birth certificate that is either embarrassing to Obama or contradicts his much-ballyhooed “life story”.
The woman was there for at least half a decade, or maybe more.
I suspect she was recruited by the CIA to work under a USAID or USIA cover.
Many of our "native resources" found themselves exterminated or driven out of the country under Sukarno. This is in the immediate aftermath of Suharto's takeover. There was a fair amount of violence ~ something like half a million communists and Hindus were killed there.
So, not as naive as you might think.
You do not seem to realize that it is mostly idiots who vote. These are the people who are shown pictures of polar bears on icebergs and are convinced that Al Gore is a scientific authority. It seems to me that there is probably something on Obama's birth certificate (not necessarily on his certification of live birth, though maybe there too) that would fit well into a ten second sound bite and that even idiots could understand. He may well be a natural born citizen, but maybe his name wasn't what he says it is now and he would have to explain why he took on a Muslim sounding name; or maybe something else.
I'm not sure that "real issues" have been part of Presidential campaigns during my lifetime. (I was born in '46.) The best sound bites win now; and right now it's sad to say that the best sound bite is "change." It would be good to change that.
Try getting a passport without a BC!
Hawaii DOES NOT send out copies of the original birth certificate, or even a “late” birth certificate. The “Certification of Live Birth” is sent instead.
BTW, did you know that there are over 50,000 variations in US birth certificates?
If you never saw a Hawaiian COLB, or knew that it has to have the embossed seal of Hawaii — obe that you can feel with your fingers — and the signature block of Alvin T. Onaka on it — you have to know exactly what it looks like — AND a receipt from Hawaii confirming your order,
IT IS NOT A LEGAL DOCUMENT.
Has McCain revealed his actual, paper birth certificate to America?
Has Obama revealed anything on paper?
That’s the issue, my friend.
TechDude and myself came to the same conclusion, but from different approaches.
Rather than call the State Department, or Hawaii, let’s call Las Vegas, because I’ll take all action on anyone claiming that these images are genuine copes of BHO’s birth record.
Im an attorney. Trust me on this one.
A news anchor friend has a very unpronounceable Korean last name, so her “TV” name drops two syllables from her legal name and very rhythmic sounding.
She has never filed any “assumed name” paperwork or changed her name legally in any way.
She has two passports, on in her legal last name, the other in her “TV name.” All she had to do to get the TV name passport was submit letters from her News Director and a local City Commissioner who is a lawyer and swore he had known her for more than 10 years. Took about a month and was easy.
No one claims they are COPIES of his birth record.
They are ABSTRACTS of his birth record. That is something entirely different.
They can look very different from year to year, as they are created NOW (on in the year of their issue), not when he was born.
I have 3 from New York State, all issued decades apart. All very different.
because Ill take all action on anyone claiming that these images are genuine copes of BHOs birth record.
***I submitted a suggestion yesterday to Intrade for a contract on this item. I haven’t heard from them yet.
With all due respect... MindBender26... Puleeze...
“No one claims they are COPIES of his birth record.”????
Are you crazy? Do a search on Google right now for obama and birth and certificate and you will see an ad come up from the Obama campaign and it says and I quote,”See the ORIGINAL birth certificate.”
Which makes them as stupid as we all think they are.
If someone does not understand what an abstract is, and thinks that all these unnamed document experts are making a decison based on only seeing an internet copy of the document, then they are a foolish as the Obama people.
GET OVER IT! HE IS A CITIZEN. IF HE WAS NOT, HILLARY WOULD HAVE USED THIS HAMMER MONTHS AGO.
He may be an U.S. citizen but that certificate he has tried to pass off as genuine is obviously bogus.
What experienced forensic document examiner has looked at the ORIGINAL document and pronounced a forgery?
Not a copy posted on the web, but the original.
Has even one?
The problem is, we want it to be a forgery too badly.
Birth certificates are NOT public record. The State of Hawaii has a responsibility to keep this private. It doesn’t matter if someone is running for an elected public office. Birth certificates contain personal information that is immune from a FOIA request. Obama must provide written authorization before they are permitted to release it. If he declines, so must they
State of Hawaii HRS 338-18: “HRS 338-18 Vital Statistics; State Public Health Statistics Act; Disclosure of Records? Allows disclosure of vital statistics of a person to his or her spouse.” http://hawaii.gov/lrb/rpts95/sol/solapb.html
Certified copies of these records may be issued to authorized individuals and used for such diverse purposes as school entry, passports, Social Security participation, drivers licenses, employment, sports participation, survivors benefits, proof of property rights, and other needs. http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html
Now we need to push/goad/entice Rush, Sean and other conservative talk show hosts to start demanding authorized copies of Bambi’s certificate of birth.
This is a serious mystery/mess that can only be cleared up with legit copies of Bambi’s certificate of birth.
Saul Alinski was an amateur!
“GET OVER IT! HE IS A CITIZEN. IF HE WAS NOT, HILLARY WOULD HAVE USED THIS HAMMER MONTHS AGO.”
Sadly, using caps does not make what you say anymore true. It only demonstrates a weak argument.
Fact: Obama has still not released his paper birth certificate which is why there still is no proof to this day to what you say. You can speculate all you wish about “Don’t you think by now, that this person, that person woulda, coulda, shoulda challenged this by now” but it remains nothing but pure speculation on your part.
The fact is that the Obama camp to this day continues to refuse requests to see the paper certificate they claim to have in their possession and will only show a picture of it. (By the way, a JPEG on the Internet is legally proof of nothing.)
This is not odd to you? Why not just show the paper to reporters since they have it in their possession? What’s the problem?
Thanks for the ping Dave, I’m on late today.
Very cute post.
“Little Green Football”s states the Obama b/c on the internet is legit while Hillary partisans want to file a lawsuit.I think this is hilarious.
I agree, not only is there no BC there are no records of his time in the state of Illinois Senate and his school records are all sealed. Something is rotten in Denmark and the intent to bury his paper trails has been going on since at least the 2004 DNC Convention. He is masquerading behind the life story he concocted for his book. There are many possibilities of why his BC has been hidden along with his white grandma. Here are my favorites.
Freepers, place your bets on the TOP TEN Audacities of Truth:
1. Born BHO in Hawaii, just ILLEGITIMATE - no dad listed.
2. Born BHO in Hawaii to a dad listed as ARAB, not negro.
3. Born BHO in Hawaii, to Muslim dad & race listed as WHITE.
4. Born BHO in WA, OR, CA or KS in HOME for UN-WED girls.
5. Born Barry Dunham, not BHO, but born in Hawaii.
6. Born Barry Dunham, some OTHER GUY listed as dad.
7. Born Barry Dunham, in another state as in # 4.
8. Born Barry Dunham in CANADIAN home for un-wed girls
9. Born Barack Husein Obama in KENYA, Africa, but flown quickly to Hawaii and registered as home birth.
10. Born Barack Husein Obama in KENYA, Africa, and legally naturalized as American citizen at some later date
The “Arab” rumor is only believed by the severely retarded. Barack Obama Sr. was a LUO, ie black, not an Arab, ie Semite.
I would add, NOT BORN IN 1961, which would show up in the blacked out Certificate Number.
LEt me clarify one thing you said.
Birth records that do not list SSNd are not considered individually-identifiable health information, but they are considered protected information covered under the 1974 Privacy Act.
For years, they were open records, long before FOIA, etc. When you got a typical “copy of your birth certificate,” it was a negative photostatic copy of a certificate that had been completed by a hospital, or in the case of a home birth, the attending MD, RN or non-nurse midwife. That certificate was then sent to the county or state to be kept into some master book/file, and you could get a photocopy.
But then it was determined that certificate had too much private information, race of parents, were parents married, had mother been tested for syphilis, etc?
So rather than give you photo copy of original, you now get a certificate, which is really an abstract of the original information as submitted by doctor, hospital, etc. minus the medical data.
This was long before newborns got SSANs at birth. In mid 20th century, you got SSAN when you went to SS Administration office so you could get first “real job”
Some jurisdictions still only give the “certificate or birth record” to the parents or child involved.
I am not aware of any case law about attempts by a non-party to obtain information under FOIA request. Way out of my area.
We’ve been down this road seveal times. YOu’re wrong, dead wrong about that. The law in effect when Obama was born required the mother to be a resident of the USA for ten years with five past the age of 16. If ObaMA wasa born in Canada or Kenya he would not be a natural born citizen.
I’m now betting that the father is listed on the birth certificate as Arab.
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