Skip to comments.Enough is Enough (Vanity)
Posted on 06/14/2011 4:20:58 PM PDT by parksstp
Okay Folks, Enough is Enough!
I have enjoyed participating in this forum for a long time because I enjoy supporting the conservative values people like JimRob, the Tea Party, and other decent Americans hold dear to. It's obvious we are in the fight of our lives for the long-term survival of this country. 2012 is clearly a major turning poing that could very well decide whether or not America survives.
Because of this importance, it is paramount we select the right candidate, the true conservative that will stand with us on all the conservative specturms (social, economic, domestic, and foreign policy). We absolutely cannot settle for another RINO or Democrat-lite candidate.
Many people here have been passionate in support of "their" candidate. Others have expressed gloom and doom with no hope of survival. Still others have taken the "my candidate or nothing" road. I want to address these.
Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum (listed alphabetically). All of these individuals have strong conservative credentials, and based on what I know, I would feel comfortable and empowered with supporting any of them in a general election against Obama. Nobody is ever perfect, but these four individuals have shown time and time again that they have the character and the heart to direct the country in the "right" direction.
That being said, I have become alarmed and disheartened at the amount of attacks generated against these folks by posters on this board claiming to be conservative. I have seen Michele Bachmann absolutely brutalized for one reason or another, being labeled a "phony, stalking-horse, RINO, inexperienced, unintelligent". I have also seen Herman Cain get hammered as an "Establishment guy, Anti-2nd Amendment, TARP loving RINO". And some people just can't let the whole Santorum/Spector thing rest. It's like many posters for whatever reason want to turn reality on its head.
I know a lot of people on this board like and support Bachmann, Cain, and Santorum. Personally, I really like Michele and her debate performance last night strengthened my opinion of her. As I said before, I could easily support any of them.
I think many of the Palin supporters feel the same way too (that is, if she decided not to jump in, they could support one of the three above without much reservations). And many of us supporting one of the three candidates listed above, could possibly move to the Palin camp if she got in without any problems.
However, there appears to be a strong minority of the Palin supporters on this forum that are trying hard to deliberately suck the life out of any other conservative candidate who might actually be just as able to carry the conservative banner in the 2012 election. The notion of these folks is that Palin is the only "true conservative" who can do no wrong and that any other candidate claiming to be a conservative in this race is simply a "wolf in sheeps clothing", and that we should simply wait for her entry into the race so that she can be rightfully "annoited". After all, they say, once she enters, the debates against the other conservatives will be useless because she is already obviously the winner!
As someone that believes in conservative values and independent thought, I reject this notion and take great offense to the attacks these people have thrown on Bachmann, Cain, and Santorum.
I like Sarah Palin a lot. I love how she has learned to torture the media and turn the game on them. It's clear she is the most charasmatic of all the conservative indiviudals listed. Beleive me, it would be awesome watching her win on Election Night just to see the reaction of the liberal media (I predict Olbermann would hang himself). She's more than capable to be President.
But Sarah Palin isn't the only conservative. And contrary to some people here, she isn't an object to be worshipped. This type of infatuation always leads to disappointment, because NO candidate is perfect.
I like Michelle Bachmann. And I like Herman Cain too. And if either of these individuals ever made it to the WH at the top of a ticket, then I believe are country would be in good shape.
So I'm asking nicely to please, stop the attacks on the other conservatives in this race. These people are not rivals, they're allies. Let them each state their case to the American people, then take a step back, and make a good, rationale, objective decision.
P.S. By "Conservative Candidates" I do not mean Romney or other RINOS (those folks are fair game)
Good luck. This board has been downright hateful lately.
>>But Sarah Palin isn’t the only conservative. And contrary to some people here, she isn’t an object to be worshipped. This type of infatuation always leads to disappointment, because NO candidate is perfect.<<
You gonna GET IT now! You have said The Words That Must Not Be Said.
Prepare for being accused of:
* PDS (of course)
* Being a Romney supporter
* Being a RINO
* Being a Socialist
* Being a Commie
* Being a Commie Socialist RINO
* Being a Commie Socialist Rhino
* Being a Godless atheist
* Being a Godless atheist Commie Socialist Rhino RINO Romney supporter with PDS
And a few others, some of which will surprise you...
It’s _______________________ potential candidate or BURN IN HELL!
Oh, I forgot the automatic “troll” accusation.
Anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun gets savaged as a RINO in this place. The quality of discourse has really declined in the 15 years I’ve been here.
“* Being a Godless atheist Commie Socialist Rhino RINO Romney supporter with PDS”
I believe you’ve nailed it!
>> This board has been downright hateful lately.<<
ya think? ;)
I try to keep it light, but sometimes I snap. Just check my “In forum” responses from a thread from last week sometime (which I abandoned as a lost cause). People don’t attack arguments any more, they attack people.
If the life and ideas of a candidate (any candidate) can't stand the heat of criticism, how will they ever make it through 4(8) years in the toughest job in the world?
I don't live in a monarchy and I don't believe that any politician was sent by God. None of them are perfect, and none of them are above withering criticism.
I want someone tried and true. Not someone who is too delicate to stand criticism, or someone who attracts slobbering fans rather than thoughtful citizen supporters.
The Founders would have found your suggestion disgusting, btw. They were tired of royalty and its demands, which is why political speech is our most protected form of speech.
Whew...I’m glad you’re here now that the rest of us aren’t allowed any opinions...
I guess you totally miss the concept of a forum.
Hey, our first contestant!
“I’ll take ‘People who disagree with me and must be ground into the dirt’ for $500, Alex...”
THANK YOU for so eloquently saying something that I think needed to be said. I followed the debate thread last night as a lurker. Some of the vitriol I saw aimed towards Michele Bachman was shameful.
LOL. I agree
Actually, no. Our last discussion was fairly mild compared to some I’ve accidentally waded into. :-)
Well said, and I agree completely. I hope I get to vote for Palin, and that she chooses Allen West as her running mate. However, I would be excited to vote for any of the candidates you listed. I came away last night favorably impressed by all of these four (although I’m gonna have a hard time forgiving Santorum for the Specter thing). One thing I won’t do, though, is vote for someone I think is a RINO, even in the general election. If the Republicans nominate a RINO then I’ll write someone in. Flame away at me if you want. I don’t care. I’m tired of being a whore for the Republicans and being told they’ll respect me in the morning.
Do not forget “Mormon Sympathizer.” :-)
Nice try. And might even work if all Freepers were actually on the “right” side. But anyone can post here, including many whose primary purpose and even assignment is to sow discontent and discouragement among conservatives.
In most cases unless you follow or research posters, you have no idea if those who are criticizing Bachmann, Palin, Cain or any other candidate are sincere or if they are hit and run trolls.
As a Freeper for over 15 years, my best advice is to state your case, back it up, and if you get smeared, just move on. If you do a good job of stating your case, you might give a sincere person food for thought. You don’t want to waste your time on trolls.
You think it’s bad now. Wait until the primary season really heats up. It will be brutal.
>>I’ll take: “I post crap and don’t expect to be taken to task about it” for $1000 Alex <<
Thanks for making my point. It makes my life much easier.
Accusations of worshipping annoy me.
Proof that we have always had the very nastiest of political debate in the United States, in case you ever had a doubt:
The Presidential Campaign of 1800. The candidates in their own words, turned into TV commercials for today’s audiences:
The Founders knew that debate would be dirty, mean and nasty, and they planned for it by protecting political speech.
Do you think you’re better or smarter than they were?
Congratulations on a well written post that I agree with 100%.
Well, everyone says what they think, within reasonable limits. I’m not sure why you find Sarah Palin’s supporters are to blame for supporting their candidate and pointing out problems with some of the other candidates, when almost everyone else does the same thing for their candidate.
It’s not as if every Palin thread doesn’t involve attacks against her from those who support other candidates, or spurious reasons why Sarah should not run.
And there have been posters who basically do nothing but attempt to undermine Sarah, all day long. So it’s hardly a one-sided business.
>>Its not as if every Palin thread doesnt involve attacks against her from those who support other candidates, or spurious reasons why Sarah should not run<<
The problem is that every critique is “an attack” and every (or heck, any) analysis of why she may NOT run (much less why she should not run) isn’t spurious.
Totally agree. Ronald Reagan’s 11th commandment “Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican” seems to have gone by the wayside lately.
I was very impressed with the candidates refusal to turn on each other last night though King worked hard to make it happen with Pawlenty and Romney. I hope they continue to stay civil and supportive of each other.
What we need to do in the meantime is make sure we have a choice, no crossover voting in our primaries and purged voter rolls where half the votes are coming from the great beyond.
Only one goal here, get Obama and crew out. We can work on perfecting the system once we’ve rescued it.
This is politics, not Sunday School.
Competition works. What is said here may have the effect of inflaming or reinforcing passions that probably won’t change anyhow, but will have very little impact on the election.
Mostly it’s about...politics.
You said it very nicely and I thank you for your effort. Of course you will be be attacked mercilessly, so I hope you have your asbestos undies on.
>>As usual, another Non-sequitur post from you. <<
And the exclamation point after making my point :)
Iron sharpens iron.
Sometimes people here are real PIAs, but they get challenged.
I see the back and forth as a given, not an anomaly.
And it helps to sharpen the arguments you make for conservatism on the outside, at work, with family, with friends.
Look, we all know we are in the battle of our lives next year for our future and for the future of our families.
The person chosen to lead the battle against Obama better be able to take the fight to him, and his or her supporters as well.
Politics ain’t tiddly-winks.
List 'em then.
Would it be the same list of folks who happen to disagree with YOU on this or that point?
Isn't that curious?
Mark Levin spent the first hour of his show tonight urging that the candidates need to press Romney to justify his conservative cred.
I tend to agree. The conservatives need to be crystal clear that Romney has a record and stated positions that are NOT conservative, Reagan's 11th commandment notwithstanding.
>>Sad, huh? <<
Yep. We all bemoan it but I guess we may as well get used to it.
I know it can be tough to hear, but that’s why I love and am adddicted to this site.
When I want to hear about a candidate on the issues, in all the unvarnished truth, this is the site.
Yes, it can be rough at times, but I always leave here better informed. I just chalk it all up to our passions.
Thread hijack attempt duly noted.
Learn the rules here and obey them. We are not to drag arguments from other threads into the discussion.
Why the eagerness to chase folks away? Please explain it to me.
and for the record. most of the palin supporters are not attacking the the other candidates. they are pointing out where those other candidates stand on the issues.
Just leave Obama alone!!!!
>>Grow a thicker skin, you do not get to state an opinion unchallenged on an open, conservative, political website. <<
So long as you post back to me as you have in this very thread, it is pointless.
You don’t challenge the opinion, you attack the opiner. My original upthread bullet list post is only partially sarcastic — it is more factual than many of us would like.
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