Posted on 07/31/2011 11:36:22 AM PDT by charlene4
However, there is always the chance that Taitz will be allowed to see the document. My concern is that because the document Obama released has a potential backdoor qualifier as being a potential "abstract", that the "original" document they may be allowed to see will simply be Round Two of the release of the forgery: different enough to start the process all over again and slick enough after learning their lessons and being taught how it's supposed to look by the analysis of the aforementioned experts that it will leave the issue "inconclusive". This time Obama's people are certain to have their typeset correct, stamps in place and all the rest (if Taitz is allowed to see anything).
While the experts Irey and Vogt are very good, as I understand the process they will only be able to make a visual analysis. In short, a visual inspection is almost certain to fail to conclusively prove anything unless Obama's resources are much tighter and more restricted than we might guess - in that case he must be having some sleepless nights.
(Excerpt) Read more at obamafake.blogspot.com ...
Maybe all she’ll be shown will be the COLB since there isn’t any BC. Someway, somehow, the WH will stall anything.
Wouldn’t it be fantastic if he gets so much blame for the debt “crisis” that even liberals start calling him a Kenyan? Never happen but it would be fantastic.
Why has that not been played up bigger? If everything is okay with it, why the hush-hush. Makes for more and more questions. This whole issue could have been resolved years ago.
Take Back AMERICA!
FUBO GTFO 2012 !
Gotta give Orly a lot of credit, she sure does not back down!
My guess is HI will pull all the technical legal manuevers they can. It may take months to get through all the blocks they throw, but she will perservere and possibly one day a non corrupted Judge will say *Enough, Fuddy. Hand it over!*
she should go back to filling cavities, maybe she was actually good at that
Thank you but I didn’t do anything spectaculor. Just did what I was told for 4 years. Came home with $22 more than I had when I went in. ha
The more HI stalls the more people will wonder why.
“Why has that not been played up bigger?”
Because Sven just makes this stuff up. It’s not actually true.
The effort to verify Zero’s shady past is a can’t lose proposition.
Every person that begins to question that past will become unlikely to vote democrat in 2012.
Anyone that flatly refuses to even consider that he might have a questionable past is a Zero voter that simply cannot be dissuaded from voting dem.
The thoughtful will say to themselves “How can such a bizarre thing be true” and then consider the question “If it’s not true why are they going to such lengths to obscure the facts”
There simply is no downside to this quest...it is similar to the Swift Boat episode....powerful stuff because it is the truth. All attempts to deny and sweep it away just create more publicity and scandal.
From what I've seen of her work so far, we need a better dentist working this case.
Still...a Russian dentist/American lawyer taking down the usurper POTUS who's not even a NBC would be SWEET!
So what part of the story is true? None?
That BHO has an original or different BC under seal in Hawaii.
So basically it’s a non-story then. Too bad. It’ll still keep the conspiracy people awake nights though.
FOGBLOW.com
I wouldn’t have had $22.00 except for unused leave. {:-)
But $20.00 went a lot farther in those days.
Sky, Sordo shows up on every one of these threads to make fun of anyone who doesn’t worship the won. Paid or unpaid he is consistent.
I think I had $22 left after I paid for a plane ticket from Gulfport to Memphis. And after I’d been home about two days I didn’t have anything.
It’s nice to learn there are people here to keep others honest. Thanks for telling me that.
R/Janey
The website acts as if there is still real paper document in a vault. That is unlikely. The documents were likely long ago digitized into digital image library.
It is the digitized image that should be examined - and a source image from the library should be made available.
Also, the supporting records need to validated. This game of photoshopped images needs to come to an end. Full disclosure of all supporting records is required. Included in that is when the 2007 COLB was issued.
Finally, affidavits attesting to the records needs to be signed by all Hawaii officials involved. They need to sign that the images, records, documents, etc. are 100% authentic. Name, date and notarized.
The bc WH posted was copied from a book, that needs to be looked at. I don’t believe it is there, but, that is one doc they need to see.
Checkout this raidio show! Corsi, Taitz, the guy who exposed Brokow, Susan Daniels and more. It is really good!
http://obamafake.blogspot.com/2011/07/amazing-round-table-interview-with-many.html
I want to know why the judge denied discovery to Col. Lakin because the BC would be embarrassing to the President. What he released in April contained the same info as the COLB.
So, what is the embarrassing info his lawyers told the judge about?
“The website acts as if there is still real paper document in a vault. That is unlikely. The documents were likely long ago digitized into digital image library.”
Hawaii officials say that even after digitization in 2001, all original paper copies of birth certificates are intact and kept in bound volumes in Health Department files.
“Obama birth certificate moved to more secure location months ago”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/27/obama-birth-certificate-moved-secure-location-months-ago/
“Finally, affidavits attesting to the records needs to be signed by all Hawaii officials involved. They need to sign that the images, records, documents, etc. are 100% authentic. Name, date and notarized.”
What if Dr. David A. Sinclair who is listed as the birth doctor created a fake birth certificate as a favor to the Obama grandparents and that was done during the first week of August in 1961?
All the affidavits and notarized statements from Hawaii officials that could be put together wouldn’t alter a crime that might have been committed 50 years ago.
“The effort to verify Zero’s shady past is a can’t lose proposition.”
Well, no. Google up the name of the attorney here along with “sanctions”.
“there is always the chance that Taitz will be allowed to see the document.”
Like there’s a chance that I’ll be boxing’s next heavyweight champion of the world.
That said, the point of the article is that if even if Taitz gets access to the original, she needs a competent forensic document examiner, not just some folks who worked in printing. The one legitimate expert Taitz has been citing is Sandra R. Lines, and what Lines said was that to make a determination she’d need the original document. Great. If Taitz thinks she has a valid command to produce the document, hire Lines to do what she does.
Lines is expert in examining physical documents. The only plausible expert in forensic image analysis that I’ve seen comment on the eligibility evidence is Neal Krawetz, who debunked fake expert “Ron Polarik”. P turned out to non-expert, and in this case liar, Ronald Polland. Dr. Krawetz had published on forensic image analysis before Obama’s eligibility was an issue.
The rest is a clown act. What work on forensic analysis can all these other “experts” cite, from before they decided to turn their talents to President Obama’s birth certificate? Near as I can tell — and if I’m wrong please cite — there is none. They are pretending to be experts at forensic analysis on their first try at forensic analysis. I don’t get that. How can one be an expert at doing what he or she has never yet done?
Sandra R. Lines and Neal Krawetz have legitimate claims to expertise; they had published on forensic analysis before they stated their opinions on the issue here. The rest is nonsense.
August 28, 2008
“... FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.”
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
So, Hawaii officials let FactCheck.org staffers into the secure vault to take photographs, touch and examine Obama’s bound original long form birth certificate?
Did Hawaii officials let FactCheck.org staffers checkout the bound book as if it were a library or did they let them in the vault?
SvenMagnussen: “So, Hawaii officials let FactCheck.org staffers into the secure vault to take photographs, touch and examine Obama’s bound original long form birth certificate?”
Is a little honesty too much to ask, Sven? From the very article you linked:
“Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago.”
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
Obama’s nativity story is evolutionary.
“Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago.”
Did you see, “Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate?”
August 28, 2008
“... FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate.”
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
So, Hawaii officials let FactCheck.org staffers into the secure vault to take photographs, touch and examine Obama’s bound original long form birth certificate?
Did Hawaii officials let FactCheck.org staffers checkout the bound book as if it were a library or did they let them in the vault?”
Factcheck.org didn’t go to Hawaii at all. They examined and took pictures of a copy of the SHORT FORM COLB from the Obama campaign headquarters. The same copy presumably that Obama ordered from the Hawaii Health Department in 2007.
Here’s what they said in their article: “Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it’s stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.”
http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
You might be interested in hearing the former Hawaii Health Director in her own words discuss the long form, vault copy.
Sorry that you have to watch a commercial before you can see and hear Dr. Fukino.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9D4n6_Uifk
I don't recall seeing any evidence that indicates this. Do you know of such evidence? Point it out to us if you do.
http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/about/facts-about-the-hdoh-official-seal/
Why did Alvin change TXE Seal to a smiley face?
THAT will always convince me that something is wrong.
“Raised Seal?
http://obamasgarden.wordpress.com/about/facts-about-the-hdoh-official-seal/
Why did Alvin change TXE Seal to a smiley face?
THAT will always convince me that something is wrong.”
Here’s a picture of what factcheck was talking about:
Scroll down to the third photo:
http://factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/
Alvin T. Onaka is still on the job as Hawaii state Registrar. Somebody should get the answer directly from the “horse’s mouth” about txe and the smiley face. It’s his authentification stamp. And while they are at it, they should submit any evidence of tampering or forgery to a law enforcement agency for further investigation.
“I don’t recall seeing any evidence that indicates this. Do you know of such evidence? Point it out to us if you do.”
The purpose of a subpoena is to obtain evidence to present for the record in a Court proceeding. If the evidence were in the public domain, then there wouldn’t be a need for a subpoena.
Orly should take a Court Reporter with her and ask Ms. Fuddy questions while her document examiners are working.
She could start with, “Why was the original long form birth certificate sealed and archived?”
Depending on Ms. Fuddy’s response, a follow up question should be asked.
Hopefully, Ms. Fuddy will step in it with, “According to our rules and procedures ...”
That’s opens up a request for a copy of the rules and procedures.
I noticed a link to FoxNews posted in the thread earlier that quoted Mr. Onaka as locking Obama’s original long form BC in a lock box inside the vault. Orly could ask Ms. Fuddy to point to the rule and procedure for locking someone’s BC in a lock box inside the vault.
Were other BC’s stored in the lock box with Obama’s BC? What is the procedure for removing someone else’s BC if they requested their original long form BC?
Some great questions! ALL should be answered. I am just wondering since Fuddy *has left the Island* if she will even be back by the 8th.
I give Orly and everyone going with her my Prayers and all my hope for well deserved Victory.
I know the way these sleazy jerks do things from history and they will pull something to thwart the success. Someone posted along the lines of there will be a closed sign on the door reading *closed for funeral. Death of Obama’s Political carreer.* I love it!
The rest is a clown act. What work on forensic analysis can all these other “experts” cite, from before they decided to turn their talents to President Obama’s birth certificate? Near as I can tell — and if I’m wrong please cite — there is none. They are pretending to be experts at forensic analysis on their first try at forensic analysis. I don’t get that. How can one be an expert at doing what he or she has never yet done?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do not see a claim as a *Forensic Expert*
Mr. Irey has 50 years in and is considered a Graphic Expert. There are many experts who’s willingness to expend the time and effort in each facet of deciphering this joke of of a BC is needed and certainly appreciated.
I am guessing you would like to know if this copy or abstract is legit. Why would you call it a clown act?
Now if I asked my Grandchildren to look at it and testify it is a sham, that MIGHT be a clown act. I am pretty sure the 7 and 8 yr olds would even say *yep* when they saw TXE smiley face. Of course 7 and 8 yolds are not experts, a man with 50 yrs in Graphics is.
The evidence Obama’s long form BC was sealed is proven by the fact his short form BC has a “date filed.” The only vital records with a “date filed” are vital records created by Court Order.
Obama’s long form BC has a “date accepted” because it was created through witness attestation (signatures of mother, delivery doctor and hospital administrator). The registrar has a choice of indicating a “date received” or “date accepted” with witness attestation.
The only choice a registrar of vital records when there is a Court Order is “date filed.” A Court Order will only be issued to create a short form COLB if there is a corresponding Order to seal the original long form BC.
Check the internet. There are many people born in Hawaii who have long form BC’s with a “date accepted” and a short form BC with a “date accepted.”
Obama has a long form BC with a “date accepted” and a short form COLB with a “date filed” because his original long form BC was sealed by Court Order. The Court may have sealed the original long form BC because the Soetoro adoption was finalized or something else.
Obama’s long form BC has a “date accepted” because it was created through witness attestation (signatures of mother, delivery doctor and hospital administrator). The registrar has a choice of indicating a “date received” or “date accepted” with witness attestation.
The only choice a registrar of vital records when there is a Court Order is “date filed.” A Court Order will only be issued to create a short form COLB if there is a corresponding Order to seal the original long form BC.
Check the internet. There are many people born in Hawaii who have long form BC’s with a “date accepted” and a short form BC with a “date accepted.”
Obama has a long form BC with a “date accepted” and a short form COLB with a “date filed” because his original long form BC was sealed by Court Order. The Court may have sealed the original long form BC because the Soetoro adoption was finalized or something else.
This is an excellent point! I think I recall butterzillion making this point before as well. I just wasn't certain that this was indeed significant. I was speculating that a laid back state such as Hawaii, might not be very rigid in their methodologies and procedures. I noticed they changed their birth certificate stamp, so perhaps they changed their birth certificate nomenclature as well?
I will mark that down as further evidence of some sort of court proceeding such as an adoption or name change. I have long strongly suspected that there is some sort of court involvement with Barry's birth certificate. Nothing else makes any sense. Thanks for pointing that out, and explaining the significance of it.
For the purpose of executing the subpoena, Orly should remind Ms. Fuddy she is an Officer of the Court. Lying or misrepresenting material facts to Orly is the same lying to a Judge in US Federal Court.
Asking why Obama’s long form has a “date accepted” of August 8, 1961 and his short form COLB has a “date filed” of August 8, 1961 is relevant to authentication of the original BC.
Original BC of other native born Hawaiians have a “date accepted” on the long form BC and the short form COLB. Why is Obama’s different?
I just recieved an email saying bo signed Dream Act into effect by Exec Order. I can not find any verification and am praying it is not true. Anyone know?
For the purpose of executing the subpoena, Orly should remind Ms. Fuddy she is an Officer of the Court. Lying or misrepresenting material facts to Orly is the same lying to a Judge in US Federal Court.
Asking why Obama’s long form has a “date accepted” of August 8, 1961 and his short form COLB has a “date filed” of August 8, 1961 is relevant to authentication of the original BC.
Original BC of other native born Hawaiians have a “date accepted” on the long form BC and the short form COLB. Why is Obama’s different?
Loretta Fuddy was confirmed by the Hawaii state Senate as Director of Health on March 24, 2012. She does not have the answers to questions regarding the Obama birth certificate that occurred under previous administrations in Hawaii.
Orly Taitz will be getting the typical bureaucratic run around from a newly appointed official.
I doubt that Orly will get anything at all from a subpoena since Hawaii law requires a court order signed by a judge in order to inspect a confidential birth record and a subpoena is not a court order. A search warrant is a court order, signed by a judge.
The most important people to ask questions of are previous Health Director under Governor Linda Lingle, Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the Registrar of Vital Statistics for Hawaii under both the Lingle and the Abercrombie administrations, Dr. Alvin T. Onaka.
Loretta Fuddy only authorized the release of a copy of the long form and she supervised the photocopying of that document.
Orly needs a search warrant and a grand jury investigation or a congressional committee investigation where Fukino and Onaka can be called to testify under oath.
Oops, there’s a typo in my post above: Loretta Fuddy was confirmed on March 24, 2011 not 2012.
I would beyond LOVE to hear Alvin’s own explanation of his stamp! I have asked here for an explanation several times and no one seems to have an explanation. Alvin’s own words would be priceless.
“I would beyond LOVE to hear Alvin’s own explanation of his stamp! I have asked here for an explanation several times and no one seems to have an explanation. Alvin’s own words would be priceless.”
Yeah, it’s too bad that no committee of the House of Representatives has called him as a witness.
I have no idea what he would say but I do know that artifacts from photocopying, creating a pdf file and scanning any document disappear when it is viewed at a higher resolution.
For example: http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/BirthCertificateHighResolution.jpg
This is why its not a good idea to attempt to establish the authenticity of a document without examining the original hard copy. Every generation of reproduction introduces its own set of artifacts to the original.
Dr. Onaka’s signature would not be on the original. He was a
child back in 1961.
Dr. Onaka’s signature would not be on the original. He was a
child back in 1961.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am guessing that his stamp is on this COPY so as to certify it as real. You are correct though, if this is suppossed to be a copy of the original......
Geez!
I do not buy the artifact thing. Not a bit. If it were to be caused because of artifacts would not someone with credibility on the line make sure it was clean as a whistle? To me this is just a big FU to us compliments of Barry.
I have asked KLEON for his opinion but he hasn’t answered.......
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