Posted on 11/20/2011 9:55:18 PM PST by Kevmo
2 recent Articles focusing on the testing of E-cat
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http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/rossi-refuses-new-test-offer-confirms-first-customer-as-military-agency-which-has-ordered-13-more-units/
Rossi Refuses New Test Offer, Confirms First Customer as Military Agency Which has Ordered 13 More Units
November 18, 2011
The Italian magazine Focus has published some public correspondence between Andrea Rossi and Dr. Francesco Celani, First Researcher at the Italian National Laboratory of Frascati. Celani has requested that Rossi provide an E-Cat which he, Celani, would put through rigorous and carefully measured week long or more test. Following the testing a scientific report would immediately be written and published.
Rossi politely declined the offer, stating, as he has many times before, that he sees no need to do another public test.”Those who have been following the developments of our adventure for months, like Focus’readers have, know that the critical moment has finally gone: our 1megawat pilot plant persuaded the investors.Soon it will be operative in a real industrial context, and as well as producing thermal power, it will be subject of studies itself. For all the reasons below, i don’t see any point in having another E-Cat test, that, in my opinion, doesn’t need to prove “weather” it works or not.”
It was also confirmed by Rossi that the customer who purchased the first plant was from a military organization, and that this same customer has ordered more units. Rossi said “It will be a 13 MW thermal power plant, consisting of 13 Energy 1MW catalyzers like the one in operation in Bologna on October 28″
Rossi also explains that the work he will be doing with the University of Bologna will go beyond merely testing the E-Cat units — they will be involved in studying the nuclear reaction phenomena with a view to coming to a solid theoretical understanding of what is happening. He said they may even arrive at a new theoretical model.
He writes, “Once we understand the phenomenon, we could discover new, unexpected ways to exploit it, as i believe it will happen. Today, it’s very hard for everyone to imagine an enegetic scenario where fossil fuels are no longer needed, still… i firmly believe that day isn’t that far away.”
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http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg56145.html
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Aussie Guy E-Cat
Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:33:29 -0800
I intend to use a digital flow rate monitor, inserted into the intake water hose. The data logger will record 16 input and output data points every 100 ms or finer if necessary. Amazing what GB memories can do. Thanks for the lower flow rate and use of a bucket / basin for secondary checking suggestion. Always nice to double check the digitals, being an OLD analog (magazine and technology) man who, when first touching a CK722 transistor, said WTF?
AG
On 11/20/2011 5:51 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote:
For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T.
Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically
emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple
inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line
to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well)
Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for
providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that
helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed,
funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a
E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring
a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.
My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test
of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre
delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min
COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.
I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and
model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat
test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp
ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the
heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do
the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger
and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input
energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.
From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted
through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so
they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside
wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a 45
deg insertion angle acceptable?
AG
Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
Aussie Guy E-Cat
Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:20:55 -0800
A working and reliable product with back-up and support is everything. I'm a Black Box kind of guy who has been a engineer long enough to know that both devices are very early stage work in progress. I don't expect to see what I would see if I visited ABB or GE. Have opened up a channel to Defkalion.
This could be a good match with a diathermic oil based LENR heat generator: http://www.ge-energy.com/products_and_services/services/oil_and_gas_services/oregen.jsp
AG
On 11/20/2011 10:26 PM, Peter Heckert wrote:
Am 20.11.2011 09:47, schrieb Aussie Guy E-Cat:
Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, which I should add the inventors never agreed to.
What information I can share as I move through the process I will share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to make money from the E-Cat.
Bottom of Form
Key difference: this link speaks of a financial scam. You can drag that out 'forever' because there is no physical product. Whereas Rossi at some point has to either get an investor to send him $$, or a buyer to do the same.Have you reviewed any of the links I have provided on "energy" and other investment scams? They typically run for at least five years, and bring in millions or tens-of-millions of dollars.
The complete lack of a working product has not stopped any of them.
Linking to other frauds that have clear and important dissimilarities to the E-cat is no help.Steorn is an investment scam still going on. They've been at it for a decade, and have received something like 20 million Euros. They've never demonstrated a working product, and they have had no customers in all that time.
Tilley (and here) lasted more than 5 years, and collected millions from investors. He boasted that there couldn't be any fraud because he wouldn't take any advance money from customers (sound familiar?). He had impressive demonstrations of his (fake) device, which fooled a lot of people, including Rossi's partner, Sterling D. Allan. LINK
These are the two I have on tap that are most like Rossi. There are more, but I would have to hunt them down and find reasonable links to provide (I don't want anyone having to take my word about anything).
But I also recall many saying there would be no 1 MW unit, and that came to fruition.Sorry I broke up these responses.
What evidence do you have that Rossi tested a 1MW unit? What evidence do you have that Rossi even tested a 450KW unit?
The only "evidence" we have is Rossi's unsubstantiated word. No outsiders were allowed to even monitor the test. His "secret customer" with his "secret NATO Colonel" supposedly ran the test, but no one has been able to dig up anything on either one. I find it incredible that, given all the interest in this story, that no one has found a single reference to this mystery retired NATO Colonel prior to the day Rossi did his test.
Also, there is significant doubt about even the 470KW number from Rossi. The data supports as little as 70KW (7% of what Rossi claimed the system should be able to do), and there is no particular reason to assume it was any more than that. And, given there was a 500KW generator hooked up and running the whole time, pulling 70KW out of it would be trivial.
My point about the 1 MW unit was that people doubted it would exist and said that the October 28 demo would be canceled or delayed. I agree that the Oct. 28 demo was disappointing for those of us spectating. But the event did come off, and the 1 MW unit did appear. Someone built it, whether it is real or a sham. My basic point here has been that for this to be scam it has to be bigger than just Rossi. A good deal bigger. Maybe it's the mafia or something, but I think the E-cat-bashers focus is too limited.
The greater part of my comments had to do with the second controlled test involved in actualizing virtual particles popping up out of the vacuum.
That's quite possibly SEVERAL TIMES MORE SIGNIFICANT than the first fission-fission bomb at Trinity Site.
Wacky stuff fur shur!
If you don't find the OTHER ADDRESSES that may mean that site only has one address.
Such sites are actively NOT preferred by con-artists.
Give you some examples ~ an office building is on a corner. It could have an address directly on two streets. However, one of those streets (typical in Europe, less common in America) may have TWO or more names ~ one was given to it for main thoroughfare purposes ages ago. The other name or names showed up as honorable mentions for famous men who may or may not have lived there.
You have have a THIRD group of addresses focused on that one building if they call it a PLACE.
Conrad Black's publishing group looks for places like that to set up shop ~ not saying he's a conman but he did spend time in jail for defrauding investors and stockholders in his own company (where he even screwed himself).
Finding that two companies appear co-located at a single address may mean nothing more than that they are owned by a holding company and this is a lawyer's office where the papers are kept.
Keep digging guys. Give us multiple addresses for single sites where Rossi or his buddies ever did business, come up with the other names, and let's see who does which to who with what.
This is posted in Blogs, so... kindly get lost.
This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. But if it offends you to the point that you get it removed like my prior innocuous citation then I’ll have to come up with some other ‘ignore button’ post.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2800058/posts?page=55#55
To: Moonman62
This means I have nothing more to say to you about LENR. Bye.
55 posted on Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:41:07 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies | Report Abuse]
Since you insist on repeatedly posting this drivel, I will, from time to time, post corrections
***that is your right as a FReeper, your right to be wrong.
Keep waiting and keep arguing from silence, a classic logical fallacy.
So, we will want to watch and see if Rossi at some point asks for investment funds. So far he has notHow do you know he isn't? Because he said so?
The fact that Rossi claims to be selling E-cats, not promising vaporware, is a huge distinction as well, though that needs to be verified obviously.I haven't seen any E-Cats, have you? I haven't seen anyone admitting to being a customer, let alone receiving an E-Cat, working or not, have you? So far, Rossi is selling vaporware.
Review Tilly. He had several public demonstrations of what he claimed to be a working "self-powering" car. Sterling Allen wrote about how he drove the car all day and at the end of the day, it was still fully charged. Keep in mind that Tilly was proven beyond a doubt to be nothing but a fraud.
The way you find the con-artists co-located at a single address is you find out WHAT OTHER ADDRESSES that single site may have and then you track them down and find out who else does business there that you wouldn't otherwise know about.Maybe it's just that I haven't had my morning coffee yet, but I don't follow that at all!
All I'm pointing out is that Rossi's old company, his current company and his new American business partner (AmpEnergo) all operate out of a single office.
I'm not sure what this proves, except that they obviously have a far closer and longer relationship than they are presenting to the public.
It also suggests (but doesn't prove) that this is a much smaller operation than people are being led to believe.
Keep waiting and keep arguing from silence, a classic logical fallacy.Frankly, I can't think of anything to say that would make you look any more loony than what you yourself post.
Since Rossi's "secret customer" wanted to remain secret, why did they allow Rossi to invite a bunch of outside observers to the test, and why did they allow Rossi's friends to videotape the event and post it to YouTube?
They could have easily keep the test, if not secret, at least private, so they wouldn't have to worry about being "outed".
Rossi could have held a separate event showing off his MegaWatt E-Cat, and then he could have allowed the observers to actually take measurements and examine the actual operation of the device, instead of just standing around and looking at, essentially, nothing.
So, it makes no sense to combine a public demonstration with a secret acceptance test by a secret company. Especially if it were true that the "secret customer" was running everything and Rossi was simply there as an observer (as has been suggested).
What does make sense is that this was not a "secret company acceptance test" at all, but a publicity stunt by Rossi.
Please feel free to explain to me why a "secret company" doing acceptance testing on a multi-million-dollar purchase, would turn it into a dog & pony show. I'd really like to know.
If a court wants to "git holt" of one of those corporations they simply send a notice to that law office.
There's never a reason to get excited about several firms at one address.
On the other hand if the site actually has SEVERAL DIFFERENT ADDRESSES (something your typical layperson seems to never understand) and your cluster of compadres you are looking into are involved in the NAMES at those multiple addresses at that one site, that's your first clue that something may not be quite kosher.
Then there are the commercial mail receiving agencies.
If you were the post office you would understand all of these things else you could never deliver the mail or catch non-payers or criminals.
There's never a reason to get excited about several firms at one address.You're missing the point.
THIS is the office building in question. HERE is a list of the other companies in this small "professional office" park. It is clearly not some sort of "mail drop".
Note that the other companies located in this office park (mostly insurance or financial branch offices) each have their own phone numbers.
However, Rossi, AmpEnergo and NAI Global (run by Karl Norwood, the founder of AmpEnergo) are using the same phone number. That's strong evidence that they are not just neighbors in the same office park, but in fact they are sharing the same office.
According to the Internet Archive, Rossi's company has been there since before May, 2010 (LINK).
I'm not sure what this means other than the founder of AmpEnergo and Rossi have been sharing an office for at least 18 months. This doesn't prove, or even suggest anything illegal, but it does show that they have a longer and closer relationship than they've publicly admitted. It also opens the possibility that this is a much smaller operation than the observers have been led to believe.
These guys might well be somewhere else.
Many small firms hire secretarial support services ~ and in this incredibly interconnected world, you might be able to find one in India to support your operations in Brazil (if you wanted English support), or maybe in China to support an operation in Malaysia or a number of other countries.
This has been going on for a very long time.
NAI Norwood, founded by a couple named Karl and Louise Norwood back in 1968 ~ would now logically be owned by the same couple in their late 60s or early 70s. http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/business/899720-192/norwood-group-times-its-real-estate-sales.html featuring Karl Norwood of the Karl and Louise Norwoods (that’s his sister BTW ~ she has a different married name). NAI is their company. This picture has more of your conspirators !!
You are not sure what it means ~ how about THEY use the same secretarial service ~ co-located there or somewhere else ~ the magic machine behind that is called a PBX.Except that all three companies (Rossi's EON company, AmpEnergo and NAI Global [owned by the same man who founded AmpEnergo]) list this address as their primary business address with the state of New Hampshire.
Even if they were using a phone service, it is unusual to use the same number for separate companies (such phone services usually provide separate numbers to each of their customers so they can provide custom greetings for each customer).
And, it's obviously not a common number for the businesses in that building, since all of the other companies in the building have their own phone numbers.
My brother runs a machine shop, and at one point they created a new, wholly-owned subsidiary to build automated assembly lines. The new company was in the same building (which made sense since they were owned by the same people and the machine shop was making the parts to go into the assembly lines), but they had additional phone numbers created for the new company so that when they answered the phone they could give the appropriate company name.
Sharing the same phone number means they have to ask every caller which company they are trying to call, which is not very professional.
This suggests that both Rossi's company and AmpEnergo may only be separate companies "in name only". If this is true, it would be deceptive (but not necessarily illegal) to publicize their "deals" as between independent companies.
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