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Ron Paul's Crazy Libertarianism
Off Grid Blogger ^ | December 30, 2011 | Off Grid Blogger

Posted on 12/30/2011 4:25:13 PM PST by grumpa

We did a series back in February on libertarianism. Ron Paul’s ascendency in Iowa begs that we revisit this issue.

I recently told a friend that I might hold my nose and vote for Ron Paul because he is the only one talking about drastically cutting the federal bureaucracy. I take it all back! The more we learn about this guy, the more troubling are his views.

We argued in our series that libertarianism is based on a moral foundation of sand. And that is exactly what Paul’s views reflect. On the surface, conservatives ought to like him. He says he is for the Constitution and for smaller government. But let’s see where this leads us.

He says he is against the federal government making laws on morality. But this is a sham. Every law reflects somebody’s ideas of right and wrong, and thus all laws are in some sense moral statements. For example, Paul says that the abortion question should be left to the states because there is no authority for a pro-life law in the Constitution. Would he vote for a law in his own state of Texas that outlaws abortion? We doubt it, if his libertarian views are consistent. He claims to be pro-life, but on what moral basis does he say that and to what extent should it be fixed into law? Should murder not be a federal offense?

Ron Paul also has stated that there should be no “age of consent law” in the federal statutes. In other words, Paul says that it should be OK by federal law for a 24 year old man to convince a 10 year old girl to have sex. When pressed on this issue and other similar issues, Paul says that the states should have no such laws either!

We presume that Paul thinks that the federal government should not have outlawed polygamy. This would be consistent with his libertarian views. Would he vote for a state law against polygamy? (Any such laws for a libertarian would be completely arbitrary.)

What about slavery? Should that be a state-only issue too?

Here are some other things about Ron Paul:

•He left the Republican Party to run as a Libertarian in the 1980’s because he did not like Ronald Reagan.

•He was the only member of the House of Representatives to vote against a 2005 resolution condemning Ahmadinejad's call to "wipe Israel off the map" and a 2009 resolution "expressing support" for Iranian pro-democracy demonstrators.

•He has intimated, on more than one occasion, that the United States is to blame for the 9/11 massacre.

•In the 1990’s he wrote a newsletter that had multiple vividly racist statements, a fact for which he acknowledges he holds “some” responsibility. (Some responsibility? These letters came out under his signature.) Apparently the American Nazi party supported Ron Paul.

•He has said that the United States had no business being in World War II.

•He is an active pork obtainer and sees this as consistent with his other views.

•He is for legalizing all drugs.

•He is weak on traditional marriage, and even though a professing Christian he is unwilling to acknowledge homosexuality as a sin.

Folks, this guy is NUTTY, and a very dangerous man. It is pretty hard to tell this man’s ideas apart from liberals like Michael Moore! I have been listening to various talk shows lately. The Paulites are calling in droves to support this nut. It is amazing how blinded they are to the facts when presented to them.

To see the original article on libertarianism, just scroll down on our website.


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: libertarianism; paul; ron
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Libertarianism all boils down to free sex and drugs.
1 posted on 12/30/2011 4:25:21 PM PST by grumpa
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To: grumpa

And Republicanism boils down to progressive light, NOT heavy.


2 posted on 12/30/2011 4:29:19 PM PST by nomad
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To: grumpa
Ron Paul's Crazy?

Crazy? I Was Crazy Once!

Photobucket

3 posted on 12/30/2011 4:33:07 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: grumpa

Libertarianism all boils down to free sex and drugs.

_____________________________________________________

No it boils down to the Bill of Rights, for which we can thank our Libertarian founders for.


4 posted on 12/30/2011 4:34:32 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: grumpa
The basis for libertarianism is the single precept, "Initiate no force against another". Like the premise of Christianity, it has been misused by many and strictly observed by few. To take taxes from a supposedly free person is to initiate force against that person; to defend oneself is not to initiate force. To arrest some fool for smoking dope is to initiate force in an attept to keep him from making stupid choices. That's none of my business; let the fool smoke dope, that's why they call it that.

You don't have yo agree with it but it doesn't hurt to understand it a bit.

5 posted on 12/30/2011 4:36:17 PM PST by muir_redwoods (No wonder this administration favors abortion; everything they have done is an abortion)
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To: nomad; grumpa

So nomad, did you read the article?
So nomad, which part of the article do you agree with?
So nomad, do you agree that the US was responsible for 9/11, WWII?
So nomad, do you agree that a child should be able to have sex with adults?
So nomad, do you agree that transporting minors across state lines for abortions their parents know nothing about is ok?
So nomad, do you agree with the homosexual agenda?
So nomad, do agree then that Paul’s $135 million in earmarks is ok?
We know you don’t like Republicans, and you support Paul....wait that would mean you do agree with the above. (sad oh so sad)


6 posted on 12/30/2011 4:42:54 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: SkyDancer

Remember Ross Perot’s “Crazy Aunt in the Attic”? I’ve a feeling Ron Paul is Perot’s uncle and he lived up there, too.


7 posted on 12/30/2011 4:43:20 PM PST by jmax
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To: jmax

Not really, before my time. I do think someone crazy is living up in Paul’s attic (where his brain used to be).


8 posted on 12/30/2011 4:45:51 PM PST by SkyDancer ("If You Want To Learn To Love Better, You Should Start With A Friend Who You Hate")
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To: grumpa
Not quite as nutty and dangerous as his flying spam monkeys!


9 posted on 12/30/2011 4:46:32 PM PST by Old Sarge (RIP FReeper Skyraider (1930-2011) - You Are Missed)
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To: muir_redwoods
Well-stated rebuttal.

No matter what your source of moral authority, it best not be government for government holds no good, just a gun.

Government is designed to protect your rights, moral principles are up to you.

There has also been a great deal scope creep in American governance. It applies to adult citizens that ascribe to our creed only. It does not have any control over children be they school-age or unborn. That is within the purview of the states' police power.

10 posted on 12/30/2011 4:49:02 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (Rights begin where power ends!)
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To: JohnKinAK

Do you think the founders would approve of children having sex with adults?
Do you think the founders would agree with the homosexual agenda?
Do you think the founders would have blamed the US for WWII and 9/11?
Do you think the founders would approve or transporting minors across state lines for abortions or for abortions?
Do you think the founders would approve of multi millions in earmarks?
paulbot are always trying to compare Paul to the founders, he is nothing like those men, nothing.


11 posted on 12/30/2011 4:51:22 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw

I haven’t decided who to support yet, but I view with great suspicion these unsupported emotionally driven neo-alynsky like statements that are not supported by facts.

Maybe you should read the man’s official positions as oppossed to some blogger’s opines, that are presented without factual evidence.

And I did not compare Paul to founders, I stated that Libertarian thought gave us the Bill of Rights.


12 posted on 12/30/2011 4:59:19 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: grumpa
Ron Paul's libertarianism is insanity? Take a look at what we have already.

The Obama/Cass Sunstein libertarian paternalism

I don't want to miss the opportunity to mention what the behavioral economists loosed upon us by Obama are doing; to wit, the czars and their fetters.

Obama's regulatory czar Cass R. Sunstein writes:

"The idea of libertarian paternalism might seem to be an oxymoron, but it is both possible and legitimate for private and public institutions to affect behavior while also respecting freedom of choice."

more..

"Often people's preferences are ill-formed . . . In these circumstances, a form of paternalism cannot be avoided [to overcome the decision-makers' limited knowledge and just plain stupidity otherwise known as] bounded rationality . . . libertarian paternalists should attempt to steer people's choices in welfare-promoting directions without eliminating freedom of choice . . . It is also possible to show how a libertarian paternalist might select among the possible options and to assess how much choice to offer." [End of quotes]

IOW Cass R. Sunstein and the Obamanists decide the options from among which you are permitted to choose. You get to be a libertarian! and they get to be the slave masters. What a deal!

BTW, Sunstein has in the past specifically condemned Free Republic as bad for democracy.

13 posted on 12/30/2011 5:01:51 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: JohnKinAK

For a none defender of Paul you are defending him. anyway I have read his position papers and I have read nearly all he has written, and spent hours listing to him. His position papers are not a reflection of what he says or has written beyond that. Really, you have to look at how he has voted, what he says in his speeches, who supports him, who he supports....the whole package.
Paul is not who his supporters seem to think he is.


14 posted on 12/30/2011 5:07:23 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: grumpa
They talk a good talk, but vices are the only thing they ever seem to be willing to go to war for.
15 posted on 12/30/2011 5:08:11 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: grumpa
They talk a good talk, but vices are the only thing they ever seem to be willing to go to war for.
16 posted on 12/30/2011 5:08:55 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: grumpa
When pressed on this issue and other similar issues, Paul says that the states should have no such laws either!

If this is true, then Ron Paul is a NAMBLA man. Any Paul supporters have any comment on this charge?

17 posted on 12/30/2011 5:11:25 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: svcw

No I defended Libertarian Thought from hysterical innaccurate labels.

If you have read up on him than please provide 2 pieces of evidence supporting your contention that he is Pro-Abortion and supports transporting teenagers across state lines for abortions. Something other than what some blogger’s post.


18 posted on 12/30/2011 5:17:56 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

That’s what I am saying, you don’t know him. He was only one of a few in congress to vote against a law to criminalize the transportation one minors across state lines for abortions.
k?


19 posted on 12/30/2011 5:25:42 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Just because some Marxist decides to use the term “Libertarian” to label on his Marxists beliefs doesn’t mean that Libertarian thought is Marxists in nature or even remotely similar. It just means the Marxist utilizes Newspeak to fool the useful idiots.


20 posted on 12/30/2011 5:30:00 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: svcw

So post the evidence then, it can’t be that hard for you. Or am I supposed to just blindly accept you as an authority on the issue.


21 posted on 12/30/2011 5:32:21 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

The bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00748:
Voted NO, April 27, 2005
The bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c106:H.R.1218:
Voted NO: June 30, 1999


22 posted on 12/30/2011 5:46:06 PM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: grumpa
Libertarianism is far out! A twelve year old girl should be able to live with a pimp, sell her body, and use the proceeds to purchase heroin (after her pimp takes a percentage, that is).

Don Feder suggested that Walt Disney's Goofy cartoon character would vote libertarian if he could.

23 posted on 12/30/2011 5:48:24 PM PST by Stepan12
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To: JohnKinAK

Horsehockeys

Where in the Bill of Rights are 24 year old men guaranteed the right to seduce a 10 year old free from prosecution? Where are they guaranteed access to herio?

It’s all a big scam to dilute the R vote


24 posted on 12/30/2011 5:57:00 PM PST by MindBender26 (Don't bother me with the small stuff. I'm too busy trying to save the Republic from Obamaism)
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To: Stepan12
A twelve year old girl should be able to live with a pimp, sell her body, and use the proceeds to purchase heroin (after her pimp takes a percentage, that is)

Inventing incendiary hypotheticals isn't a very productive way to discuss political ideas. Can you provide any documentation to support your implication that Ron Paul or any Libertarian actually supports the hypothetical you posit?

I doubt it.

25 posted on 12/30/2011 6:35:21 PM PST by freeandfreezing
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To: JohnKinAK
I had no intention to discredit libertarianism, but czar Sunstein's skullduggery is a threat to it.

Libertarian paternalism is part of "nudging" -- another of czar Sunstein's fetters.

The regulatory czar intends us to be "nudged" into choosing the "correct" option from the limited options presented to us by the government. Both Parties will love this, I am sure.

Aided by the MSM and all aspects of "the Establishment" -- they will not publicize unacceptable options. So if we do not hear of them do they exist? No.

And I remember. It was pretty much that way in the days of the "Fairness Doctrine" with three TV networks being the source of "news" for the major portion of the public. I have read many comments wishing to return to those days when there was very little "divisiveness."

That kind of Sunstein "democracy" is prevented by talk radio and the Internet -- and Sunstein has named Free Republic as a threat.

26 posted on 12/30/2011 6:38:49 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: JohnKinAK

Maybe you should read the man’s official positions as oppossed to some blogger’s opines,

I’ve read his official positions for a number of years. I’ve seen him in person, on tv and such. The man is an idiot and not much above his followers


27 posted on 12/30/2011 6:39:58 PM PST by Figment
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To: svcw

Ditto Romney and Newt ;)


28 posted on 12/30/2011 7:13:10 PM PST by Sprite518
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To: grumpa
The one thing that Jesus really got angry about was hypocrisy. Ron Paul loads bills he knows will pass with pork for his district and then votes against it.
I don't know if he is an anti-semite but his policies would lead to the total isolation of Israel and leave them at the mercy of the nut job islamofacists around them.
It is inconsistent to be against murder and allow abortion.
He is the one candidate who could not be Obama.
If he runs 3rd party we will know for sure he is more interested in himself than the country.
29 posted on 12/30/2011 8:38:10 PM PST by Englishman (Thank you America)
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To: Englishman

Sorry for the typo - beat Obama.


30 posted on 12/30/2011 8:40:43 PM PST by Englishman (Thank you America)
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To: grumpa

The Ron Paul supporters I’ve met are heavy drug users.

Why wouldn’t they like him?


31 posted on 12/30/2011 8:44:03 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Figment

Like I thought you’re not a serious poster. All mudslinging and not one piece of substance. I’m done corresponding with you.


32 posted on 12/30/2011 11:16:23 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: MindBender26

Please provide the substantial evidence this is what he supports. I’ve seen lots of hysterical claims but not one piece of actual evidence.


33 posted on 12/30/2011 11:18:24 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: svcw

empty links.


34 posted on 12/30/2011 11:19:30 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Between the Marxists and the hysterical rantings of alleged conservatives you’d think it was criminal to have a libertarian thought.

But then I shouldn’t be surprised, Tyrants always rely on the useful idiot class.


35 posted on 12/30/2011 11:22:41 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: svcw
His reasoning: "Nevertheless, rather than abide by our constitutional limits, Congress today will likely pass H.R. 1218. H.R. 1218 amends title 18, United States Code, to prohibit taking minors across State lines to avoid laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions. Should parents be involved in decisions regarding the health of their children?? Absolutely. Should the law respect parents rights to not have their children taken across state lines for contemptible purposes?? Absolutely. Can a state pass an enforceable statute to prohibit taking minors across State lines to avoid laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions?? Absolutely. But when asked if there exists constitutional authority for the federal criminalizing of just such an action the answer is absolutely not. " Source

His official position on abortion is available here
Hysterical rantings aside.......as I prefer to examine the facts. The facts lead me to believe he is not pro-abortion.
36 posted on 12/30/2011 11:40:15 PM PST by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

Why didn’t you simply read the original post?

Failing that, I’ll be glad to do your research for you, at my usual retainer of $650/hour

VISA/MC and AMex gladly accepted


37 posted on 12/31/2011 1:00:54 AM PST by MindBender26 (Don't bother me with the small stuff. I'm too busy trying to save the Republic from Obamaism)
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To: svcw
What I agree with is a return to the Republic of our Founding Fathers. A limited, Federalist Republic with powers delegated back to the States as they intended it to be. I don`t think the Federal bureaucracy should be deciding ANY issues beyond International Relations/Trade, Interstate trade, War, and Defending the borders.

The 9th and 10th amendments clearly give the States the right and power to decide and if you don`t like the decisions made at that level then you simply move to one thats more amenable to your beliefs.

Do you agree with the progressive dictatorship that BOTH parties have set us on a road towards?

Your party did vote for the Defense Appropriations Act that repeals the Posse Comittatus Act, calls for indefinite detention, and makes America a battle field, didn`t it?

How do you feel about your saviors` in that light?

38 posted on 12/31/2011 7:07:14 AM PST by nomad
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To: svcw
And no, I don`t agree with much of what Paul supports, BUT I don`t agree with the progressivism lite that has become your party and IF we could do away with the monster, that the Fed bureaucracy has become, and re-instate the old Republic, I DO have faith that the majority of the people would NEVER consent, thru their state legislatures, to allow ANY of those crazy things to be passed!

You make the same mistake the progressives in your party make, and thats NOT having ANY faith in the ability of people to govern themselves.

Restore the Republic and let the people at the state`s level decide.

THATS WHAT I SUPPORT!

39 posted on 12/31/2011 7:31:15 AM PST by nomad
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To: JohnKinAK

Hysterical.....that’s rich coming from a Paul supporter.
Paul always has reason.
The bottom line is he has no problem with the transportation of minors across state line to have abortions.


40 posted on 12/31/2011 7:41:14 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: JohnKinAK

I’ll check that, weird they didn’t come through.


41 posted on 12/31/2011 7:42:41 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: nomad

First, you have know idea what my party is or is not or if I have one.
Second,I have only one Savior and His name is Jesus Christ.


42 posted on 12/31/2011 7:48:50 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: nomad

I will repeat it because may not have as yet seen my response.

You have know idea what my party is or is not or if I have one.

You for some unknown reason assume that I do not have faith in the American people.

You for some reason assume I support progressive ideas (with the exception of the progression of technology and scientific discovery which I do support) you do not know who/what I beleive or do not beleive in that area. (Just letting you know about tech/science because there I love the progression of ideas)

Really, honey you just need to stop assuming so much about me.


43 posted on 12/31/2011 7:57:32 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: JohnKinAK

Ok, I tried to figure the links out. Best I could figure is that you have to go to the main page http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.phpand put in any bill number, actually a good resource.
Sorry about that.


44 posted on 12/31/2011 8:09:40 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: svcw
Then why do you seem to be so rabid in that party`s defense? I don`t consider myself a Libertarian, BUT I am a very Libertarian leaning CONSERVATIVE! I want my Republic Restored, if someone like Paul will do that then he will have served his purpose. Once restored, I have faith that the American PEOPLE will right the problems we now face, but as long as we continue to vote the lesser of two evils, we are voting for evil, don`t you guys get that? Evil will always tend towards evil, don`t you guys get THAT? Tell me, Mr. devote Christian, what does the Bible say about supporting evil? Did Christ say to support the lesser of it`s choices? How, as a Christian, can you support a vote for ANYTHING thats not the best choice but, by the expression`s OWN ADMISSION, a choice for an EVIL?

Jeez, oh Pete! Tell me thats not rationalizing! I mean the expression IS "THE LESSER of TWO EVILS", isn`t it?

45 posted on 12/31/2011 8:14:37 AM PST by nomad
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To: svcw
BTW, sweetie, I can only infer from what you are posting, and if you don`t like assumptions then please STOP making them about me! Turnabout is fair-play, isn`t it, Honey?
46 posted on 12/31/2011 8:21:33 AM PST by nomad
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Reminds of Noam Chomsky describing himself as a “libertarian socialist”. The lefties really, really want to think of themselves as lovers of freedom while at the same time wanting to boss everyone around.


47 posted on 12/31/2011 8:24:43 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: svcw
Addendum: So you don`t like assumptions, well didn`t Christ say “Do unto others as you`d have them do unto you.” I believe that Christians call that the “Golden Rule”, yes?
48 posted on 12/31/2011 8:25:47 AM PST by nomad
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To: nomad

What party am I defending, just to start.

How did Jesus feel about the government, hum let me think.....

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him. Mark 12:17

They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. Matt 22:21

Finally, you are assuming again. If I disagree with your stance (which has never been agreed upon), does not in anyway make my choice evil (according to you). I always vote for the best alternative. I always vote for the person I believe will advance what I find important and valuable.

If you disagree with my vote, then so be it. It does not make me evil, it does not make your vote brilliant.


49 posted on 12/31/2011 8:27:33 AM PST by svcw (God's Grace - thank you!)
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To: JohnKinAK
The Paulites are calling in droves to support this nut. It is amazing how blinded they are to the facts when presented to them.

Trying to reason with a Paul supporter is a fruitless endevor as they cannot see Pauls using the Constitution and speaking the Constitution to deceive his followers and the public. It's a front he masks himself with and hide his true intentions, and He's a counterfeit in every sense of the word.

50 posted on 12/31/2011 8:30:12 AM PST by caww
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