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String Theory Skeptics and Multiverse Mania
Not Even Wrong ^ | 02/21/2012 | Peter Woit

Posted on 02/23/2012 7:32:29 PM PST by SeekAndFind

My endless rants here about the hot field of multiverse studies are mainly motivated by concern about the effect this is having on particle theory. Multiverse scenarios all too often function as an excuse for not admitting that string theory/extra-dimensional ideas about unification have failed. Such an admission would encourage people to move on to more promising ideas, but instead hep-th is stuck in an endless doldrums with the high profile public face of the subject dominated by excited claims about what a wonderful discovery this region is.

Independently of the string theory problem, I’m personally a skeptic that multiverse studies have any promise, simply due to the fact that the subject lacks a viable theory, any experimental evidence, and any plausible prospects for getting either. Others feel differently though, and very recently two of my fellow string theory skeptics have written about the subject much more positively.

The first is Lee Smolin, who has written an essay for the Foundations of Physics “Forty Years of String Theory” volume with the title A perspective on the landscape problem. Smolin’s interest in multiverse models goes way back, to long before the current string-theory-based mania. He’s got a good argument that he was the originator of the term “landscape” itself, which he wrote about back in his 1997 book The Life of the Cosmos. If you’re interested in the multiverse at all, Smolin’s article is well-worth reading. I very much agree with his emphasis on the principle that one has to be careful to stick to ideas that can legitimately count as science, by conventional standards of testability. He is pursuing “cosmological natural selection” scenarios which he argues do have testable consequences. I’m not convinced there’s enough there to ever lead to solid evidence for such a scenario, although there may be enough structure there to sooner or later make it clear if the idea is simply falsified by one fact or other about the universe.

Today’s New York Times has an article by Dennis Overbye about Lawrence Krauss and his new book A Universe From Nothing. Much of the book is an excellent discussion of cosmology and the physics of the vacuum, but it also devotes a lot of effort to discussing the meaningless question of “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and arguing against the invocation of a deity in order to answer it. Krauss is no fan of string theory, which he regards as overhyped, but he seems to have developed an attraction to multiverse studies recently, perhaps motivated by their use in arguments with those who see the Big Bang as a place for God to hang out.

Personally I’ve no interest in arguments about the existence of God, which epitomize to me an empty waste of time. Given the real dangers of religious fundamentalism in the US though, I’m glad that others like Krauss make the effort to answer some of these arguments. I’m less happy to see him and others adopting the multiverse as their weapon of choice in this battle, since it’s a lousy one and not going to convince anyone. In the New York Times piece we’re told:

“Maybe in the true eternal multiverse there are truly no laws,” Dr. Krauss said in an e-mail. “Maybe indeed randomness is all there is and everything that can happen happens somewhere.”

Given the choice between this vision of fundamental science and “God did it” as explanations for the nature of the universe, one can’t be surprised if people go for the man in the white robes…



Peter Woit is Senior Lecturer in the Mathematics department at Columbia University, where teaches, does research, and is responsible for the department Computer system. For the past couple years, he has also been Calculus Director, coordinating Calculus teaching and implementing our use of the WebAssign online homework system in some of the Calculus classes.

His academic background includes undergraduate and master's degrees in physics from Harvard, a Ph.D. in particle theory from Princeton, and postdocs in physics (ITP Stony Brook) and mathematics (MSRI Berkeley). He has been at Columbia since 1989, starting as Ritt assistant professor.


TOPICS: Astronomy; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; multiverse; stringtheory
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To: DesertRhino

Hey, maybe they are right. But again, there is a whole “universe” of questions out there that the greatest of human minds has yet to even realize exists, much less have solid answers to them.

That’s all I’m really saying. String or Brane or any mumber of ‘quantum gravity’ unification theories are a hell of a long way from provable. And when they are, who is to say there won’t be some other force never imagined to throw the whole thing into chaos. Much like the wave/particle thing did not do long ago.


21 posted on 02/23/2012 8:22:36 PM PST by Norm Lenhart (Normie: Wandering Druid, Cult of Palin)
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To: Norm Lenhart

“too” long ago.


22 posted on 02/23/2012 8:24:06 PM PST by Norm Lenhart (Normie: Wandering Druid, Cult of Palin)
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To: muawiyah

“It seems that you can use math to describe things that are simply not possible in this universe.”

And you can use natural language to describe things that are not possible....


23 posted on 02/23/2012 8:26:14 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: DesertRhino

Why should it be surprising that math can describe things that don’t or even can’t exist? We can do that with words. What is amazing is that math can be used to describe things that do exist, whether they are near or very, very far.


24 posted on 02/23/2012 8:29:42 PM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: Norm Lenhart

“Anyone thinking that in a couple hundred years of actual hard science, that we have done anything but scratch the surface of what ‘is’ in ‘reality’ is pretty arrogant or deluding themselves.”
***************************************************
Ah ha! So that’s what Bill Clinton was trying to get at when he said “it depends upon what the meaning of is is”!


25 posted on 02/23/2012 8:32:43 PM PST by House Atreides
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To: House Atreides

I probably shouldn’t have let that out, huh?

;)


26 posted on 02/23/2012 8:34:13 PM PST by Norm Lenhart (Normie: Wandering Druid, Cult of Palin)
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To: SeekAndFind
Given the real dangers of religious fundamentalism in the US though...

And there we have it, the political motive for "Science" as a religion. But there is no conflict between "truths," and science as a method for discovery of facts becomes ludicrous without an underlying belief that truth is waiting to be discovered. As such, Science is a belief system when it is taken beyond a very limited scope as a method of investigation.

A religion, I might add, in conflict with a whole plethora of other religions in the world, though Christianity is not among them. The prevailing belief in nature as a creation of nature's God, the belief that truth was "there" to be discovered because it was created by the Christian God who equated Himself with "truth," was necessary for the modern scientific method to develop.

One of these days these humanists and atheists will get the status as a religion some of their more foolish believers claim to want. As it is, this "religion of non-religion" nonsense is getting a little stale.

When you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

27 posted on 02/23/2012 8:42:24 PM PST by Prospero
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To: SeekAndFind; SunkenCiv

28 posted on 02/23/2012 8:44:42 PM PST by Beowulf
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To: Norm Lenhart
That’s all I’m really saying. String or Brane or any mumber of ‘quantum gravity’ unification theories are a hell of a long way from provable. And when they are, who is to say there won’t be some other force never imagined to throw the whole thing into chaos.

A some point a wall will be reached that we will never be able to see through.
The best we’ll be able to do is theorize and maybe predict what should be on the other side, but never directly prove without question.
May have reached the wall already with some things and have a way to go with others, but the wall is there.
We ain’t ever going to know everything there is to know about our reality, both macroscopic and microscopic.

29 posted on 02/23/2012 8:45:20 PM PST by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Newt......Nuff said.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Today’s New York Times has an article by Dennis Overbye about Lawrence Krauss and his new book A Universe From Nothing. Much of the book is an excellent discussion of cosmology and the physics of the vacuum, but it also devotes a lot of effort to discussing the meaningless question of “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and arguing against the invocation of a deity in order to answer it.

Funny how Krauss and others will equate the vacuum with "nothing" when they want to claim there is no God, but then claim that the vacuum is "something" when they want to explain the mass of the proton, the mass of empty space, or the flatness of the Universe.

30 posted on 02/23/2012 8:51:35 PM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: bunkerhill7

“All the planets are puppets controlled by strings.”

No, they are suspended from thin rods projecting from the big yellow one in the center. I learned this in school!


31 posted on 02/23/2012 9:01:35 PM PST by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: SeekAndFind

The String theorist suffer from the same mistakes the global warming lunatics, asteroid killed the Dinos, Dark Matter, Dark energy scientist make in that they rely on computer models instead of real observations.

Like with Dark matter, “Oh our computer models show the universe should have more mass, our models can’t be wrong therefore 90% of it must be invisible!!!”

Same with string theory. Our computer models can’t be wrong so there must be 10 invisible dimensions!!


32 posted on 02/23/2012 9:11:43 PM PST by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: EEGator

Newton was sitting under an apple tree, an apple fell on his head, and he suddenly thought of the Universal Law of Gravitation.The apple is accelerated, since its velocity changes from zero as it is hanging on the tree and moves toward the ground. Thus, by Newton’s 2nd Law there must be a force that acts on the apple to cause this acceleration. Let’s call this force “gravity”, and the associated acceleration the “accleration due to gravity”. Now came Newton’s truly brilliant insight: if the force of gravity reaches to the top of the highest tree, might it not reach even further; in particular, might it not reach all the way to the orbit of the Moon! Then, the orbit of the Moon about the Earth could be a consequence of the gravitational force, because the acceleration due to gravity could change the velocity of the Moon in just such a way that it followed an orbit around the earth.


33 posted on 02/23/2012 9:15:14 PM PST by U-238
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To: EEGator

If you ask the average high school student today, they would probably think Issac Newton was part of some English rock band.


34 posted on 02/23/2012 9:17:43 PM PST by U-238
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To: SeekAndFind

“. . . it also devotes a lot of effort to discussing the meaningless question of “Why is there something rather than nothing?”

I don’t understand why this is a meaningless question. If we knew the answer to it, I suspect everything else would follow.


35 posted on 02/23/2012 9:23:48 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: The Cajun

“A some point a wall will be reached that we will never be able to see through.”

Godel’s theorem suggests your wall may move. It’s just that to move it, we have to accept additional facts as axiomatic. It also suggests that there is no point at which the wall will stop moving outward because there are always properties of a complex system that cannot be established from existing axioms.


36 posted on 02/23/2012 9:32:18 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: onedoug

Ping


37 posted on 02/23/2012 9:39:04 PM PST by windcliff
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To: U-238

a band that only sold 10000 cds, but every buyer started a band.


38 posted on 02/23/2012 10:08:00 PM PST by RitchieAprile
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To: ModelBreaker
Axiomatic, evident without proof, by definition of the word, when talking about theories concerning the complex nature of our reality, isn't seeing through the wall or moving it.
It's an educated, well studied guess about what's on the other side, but not proof.

There are limits on what we will ever know macroscopically and microscopically just by the nature (physics) of our 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension, that, to me, is the wall.
We can be axiomatic about those *beyond* properties as science learns more, but will never know with total certainty that's the way it really is.

That's all I'm saying.

Maybe good enough for some, maybe not for others.

39 posted on 02/23/2012 10:46:24 PM PST by The Cajun (Palin, Free Republic, Mark Levin, Newt......Nuff said.)
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To: Beowulf; AdmSmith; bvw; callisto; ckilmer; dandelion; ganeshpuri89; gobucks; KevinDavis; ...

Thanks Beowulf.

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40 posted on 02/24/2012 3:28:58 AM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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