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String Theory Skeptics and Multiverse Mania
Not Even Wrong ^ | 02/21/2012 | Peter Woit

Posted on 02/23/2012 7:32:29 PM PST by SeekAndFind

My endless rants here about the hot field of multiverse studies are mainly motivated by concern about the effect this is having on particle theory. Multiverse scenarios all too often function as an excuse for not admitting that string theory/extra-dimensional ideas about unification have failed. Such an admission would encourage people to move on to more promising ideas, but instead hep-th is stuck in an endless doldrums with the high profile public face of the subject dominated by excited claims about what a wonderful discovery this region is.

Independently of the string theory problem, I’m personally a skeptic that multiverse studies have any promise, simply due to the fact that the subject lacks a viable theory, any experimental evidence, and any plausible prospects for getting either. Others feel differently though, and very recently two of my fellow string theory skeptics have written about the subject much more positively.

The first is Lee Smolin, who has written an essay for the Foundations of Physics “Forty Years of String Theory” volume with the title A perspective on the landscape problem. Smolin’s interest in multiverse models goes way back, to long before the current string-theory-based mania. He’s got a good argument that he was the originator of the term “landscape” itself, which he wrote about back in his 1997 book The Life of the Cosmos. If you’re interested in the multiverse at all, Smolin’s article is well-worth reading. I very much agree with his emphasis on the principle that one has to be careful to stick to ideas that can legitimately count as science, by conventional standards of testability. He is pursuing “cosmological natural selection” scenarios which he argues do have testable consequences. I’m not convinced there’s enough there to ever lead to solid evidence for such a scenario, although there may be enough structure there to sooner or later make it clear if the idea is simply falsified by one fact or other about the universe.

Today’s New York Times has an article by Dennis Overbye about Lawrence Krauss and his new book A Universe From Nothing. Much of the book is an excellent discussion of cosmology and the physics of the vacuum, but it also devotes a lot of effort to discussing the meaningless question of “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and arguing against the invocation of a deity in order to answer it. Krauss is no fan of string theory, which he regards as overhyped, but he seems to have developed an attraction to multiverse studies recently, perhaps motivated by their use in arguments with those who see the Big Bang as a place for God to hang out.

Personally I’ve no interest in arguments about the existence of God, which epitomize to me an empty waste of time. Given the real dangers of religious fundamentalism in the US though, I’m glad that others like Krauss make the effort to answer some of these arguments. I’m less happy to see him and others adopting the multiverse as their weapon of choice in this battle, since it’s a lousy one and not going to convince anyone. In the New York Times piece we’re told:

“Maybe in the true eternal multiverse there are truly no laws,” Dr. Krauss said in an e-mail. “Maybe indeed randomness is all there is and everything that can happen happens somewhere.”

Given the choice between this vision of fundamental science and “God did it” as explanations for the nature of the universe, one can’t be surprised if people go for the man in the white robes…



Peter Woit is Senior Lecturer in the Mathematics department at Columbia University, where teaches, does research, and is responsible for the department Computer system. For the past couple years, he has also been Calculus Director, coordinating Calculus teaching and implementing our use of the WebAssign online homework system in some of the Calculus classes.

His academic background includes undergraduate and master's degrees in physics from Harvard, a Ph.D. in particle theory from Princeton, and postdocs in physics (ITP Stony Brook) and mathematics (MSRI Berkeley). He has been at Columbia since 1989, starting as Ritt assistant professor.


TOPICS: Astronomy; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; multiverse; stringtheory
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To: achilles2000
Certainly ~ which is only part of the point.

What seems to be missing is good predictive value ~ like it is precluded as a rule.

Waiting on the Higgs boson.

41 posted on 02/24/2012 4:18:16 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: U-238
When I was a kid they certainly wouldn't have made that mistake.

After all, there were no English rock bands!

42 posted on 02/24/2012 4:20:11 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: qam1
Those are not "computer models" ~ they are models that postulate S, T, v, N, 8 and so on. Using calculus (math) you can lay them out for discussion. Sometimes the "model" will show something interesting so they'll do 'spirmnt's to see what's really there.

Sometimes there's stuff and sometimes there's not.

"Model" is an unfortunate choice of language ~ the "meteor kills dinos" THESIS, not MODEL, is derived from OBSERVATION ~ to wit, a thin deposit of iridium all over the world at the same depth that suggests strongly something big happened. Little micro diamonds typical of meteors, that are also found associated with the iridium layer, suggest something HUGH and SERIES!

43 posted on 02/24/2012 4:25:09 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Moonman62
The "vacuum" has some experimental results behind it now ~ at the same time it's just one of those postulates.

A more understandable meme would be a CRT ~ at the edge where the phosphors are painted by the electron beam. We're on one side. They are on the other side. The reality is the image.

The screen is grounded.

44 posted on 02/24/2012 4:37:17 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

That’s an interesting conclusion to the landscape problem — that it means we can’t predict the future.

Are you the first to connect the landscape problem with the idea of predicting the future?

Are you a mathematician or physicist? (Not that it matters, just curious.)

Anyway, interesting conclusion you’ve got there. I never thought of it that way.


45 posted on 02/24/2012 4:39:09 AM PST by samtheman
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To: achilles2000
Note, I was very disappointed to read of the discovery that math had been developed to the extent that it could describe things that are not possible ~ which raised a fundamental question ~ to wit: "WHY MATH"?

Sometime long after I ran into that one (which, of course, justified my not being more adept in topology) I realized that when you look out on the Universe and take a good look at the galaxies there you find big empty zones as well. That emptiness may simply be chunks of a different universe that is invisible to us because the fundamental laws there prohibit light (as we know it), or the existence of the the same forms of matter we know, and even those other visible galaxies might well differ from our own in terms of fundamentals that we don't yet know about.

Rather than that vast array of galaxies being part of a single universe, they may instead be the very frothiness described by the multiverse equations.

46 posted on 02/24/2012 4:53:45 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind

On my reading list:

New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Proofs-Existence-God-Contributions/product-reviews/0802863833

In addition to understanding the science, Fr. Spitzer knows Thomist philosophy, and can detect logical errors that natural scientists often make.

I heard him on Catholic Answers. Listen for free:

http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/proofs-for-gods-existence-part-i-6821


47 posted on 02/24/2012 5:03:52 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: samtheman
Spent a long, long time on a math major ~ and decided there were other opportunities for higher income ~ and ended up spending about 30 years writing regulations and handbooks for USPS.

The same problems occur there that occur with math of any kind. You can say just anything you want, but that doesn't matter ~ rather, does the guy on the other end understand those words in some manner ~ and how will he react.

A finely crafted regulation put together just so and accurately describing every act that does or can occur within its scope of authority can be ignored by the smartest guy in the world ~ and no one will notice.

That's another way of saying the predictive value of regulatory excess is ZERO!

48 posted on 02/24/2012 5:04:40 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Norm Lenhart
So considering the repeating process above, The fact that we could be one ‘molecule’, our universe could be one molecule in a much larger ‘thing’, with uncounted others, does not strike me as far fetched.

Interesting. Or perhaps the universe folds back on itself if you look outward or inward far enough, like a mobius strip. If we could look inward enough, we'd see the whole universe itself.

49 posted on 02/24/2012 5:06:45 AM PST by 6SJ7 (Meh.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I know this goes against secular, contemporary, conventional wisdom —which is why this thesis is so much fun— but It’s also true.

The Origin of Science:
How is it that science became a self-sustaining enterprise
only in the Christian West?

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/science_origin.html

For truly “free thinkers,” I.e., those who can evaluate evidence objectively, outside of contemporary culturally-determined presuppositions.


50 posted on 02/24/2012 5:44:18 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: Prospero
Given the real dangers of religious fundamentalism in the US though...

The larger brained non-religious Neanderthals were killed off by the smaller brained religious Cro-Magnons so he's got a point. But a numbers man might run the numbers one time. From a statistical point of view the religious do better in school, sports, business, and war. They have more children, more successful marriages, are healthier, happier, and they live longer. Atheists cannot dispute that. The religious are only a danger to those that attack them. Then the religious can be very dangerous indeed.

51 posted on 02/24/2012 6:16:01 AM PST by Reeses
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To: SeekAndFind
“Maybe in the true eternal multiverse there are truly no laws,” Dr. Krauss said in an e-mail. “Maybe indeed randomness is all there is and everything that can happen happens somewhere.”
Not even a law regarding the formation of an individual universe, for example, that each universe, no matter what it's particular physical laws, must start out with a big bang?

Even a multiverse would require underlying principles, such as inflation and a infinite series of big bangs.

52 posted on 02/24/2012 6:25:28 AM PST by samtheman
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To: U-238
Personally I'm in the String Theory camp.

I have Seven Guitars so I know it's true.
My wife says when I play, sometimes it sounds like I'm in an another dimension :-)

Fender© ROCKS!

53 posted on 02/24/2012 6:39:44 AM PST by Condor51 (Yo Hoffa, so you want to 'take out conservatives'. Well okay Jr - I'm your Huckleberry)
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To: U-238

You do know I was kidding...right? I couldn’t tell from your reply if you were as well.


54 posted on 02/24/2012 8:18:59 AM PST by EEGator
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To: U-238

Sir Issac Newton was both the father of modern physics and the best theologian in England.

” Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.”
................
That said Issac Newton was a passionate advocate of the arian heresy which all but murdered Christianity in Europe and led to significant Christian decline—especially among mainline protestants— in the USA in the following 200 years.


55 posted on 02/24/2012 10:58:38 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: varmintman

With a 100 billion galaxies each with a 100 billion stars, why would anyone think the odds are against evolution appearing even once?

We have discovered complex organic molecules in space. To think life hasn’t formed at least once in 13 billion years seems farfetched.


56 posted on 02/24/2012 11:05:09 AM PST by Harlan1196
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To: Harlan1196
"To think life hasn’t formed at least once in 13 billion years seems farfetched."

Whatever happened 13 billion years ago would perhaps explain that.

57 posted on 02/24/2012 11:11:09 AM PST by ex-snook ("above all things, truth beareth away the victory")
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To: Harlan1196
With a 100 billion galaxies each with a 100 billion stars, why would anyone think the odds are against evolution appearing even once?

Microevolution appears all over the place. Macroevolution has never appeared once, here, there, or anywhere, and macroevolution is what the theory of evolution is basically about.

58 posted on 02/24/2012 3:02:49 PM PST by varmintman
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To: muawiyah
My personal theory is very simple ~ that in this universe at least you cannot predict the future. You can certainly project trends but you cannot predict!

Well, there goes time travel. You'd always be travelling into somebody's future, no matter which way you go.

59 posted on 02/24/2012 3:24:18 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
Yup. It's a total lockdown.

The only way around the problem is to find another universe like our own in almost all respects except it's not locked out of time travel. Then you'd travel back and forth from different times, then bop back into this one.

Should be possible to create a small universe to travel in.

One problem I see right off hand is keeping in touch with home! The inertial discontinuity is probably pretty heady ~

60 posted on 02/24/2012 3:32:20 PM PST by muawiyah
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