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My biggest problem with people who leave American because they see staying as a losing battle is that they remind me of guys who play poker badly and after losing they bitch and bitch and bitch and quit, but they don't leave they then go on to stand behind players watch their cards and give advice and criticism.

You either stay in the 'game' and make your effort or you QUIT and walk away, but you sure don't have the right to stand around and tell others that are still in how they should play!

1 posted on 01/04/2013 8:33:58 PM PST by Kartographer
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To: Kartographer

Where would I go, anyway?


2 posted on 01/04/2013 8:37:18 PM PST by Salamander (Nothing says 'Welcome to my home!' like snakes.)
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To: Kartographer

The questions are this.
Is there any hope for the country to return or change to what you want it to be?
Is there another country that is closer to what you are looking for?
And most importantly.

Is the life of you or your family at risk if you stay?

That is why people emigrate.


7 posted on 01/04/2013 8:51:34 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Kartographer
I like living in the 3rd world sh*t holes that most Americans and most prepper’s would never consider moving to. If you like personal freedom there are no places that are better if you are self supporting.
If you want relative safety, property rights, a semblance of personal rights and your guns then moving is not an option for just about everyone in that category...

I'd strongly suggest anyone contemplating moving to give it a try for at least 6 months...

9 posted on 01/04/2013 8:53:43 PM PST by montanajoe
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To: Kartographer
You see that comment written by the Costa Rican doctor living in California?

I dislike the USA and Americans in general, and particularly dislike conservative right-wing Americans. I can't wait to leave this f..... up country!

10 posted on 01/04/2013 8:58:20 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not Nurture™)
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To: Kartographer

America’s history began with Central Asians and Europeans who walked away from Central Asia and Europe.


24 posted on 01/04/2013 9:23:06 PM PST by Psalm 144 (Capitol to the districts: "May the odds be ever in your favor.")
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To: Kartographer

I say we make the traitors leave...like we did after the Revolutionary war. Sent the Torries and red coats packing. Kicked them clean out. Worked then—will work now.


25 posted on 01/04/2013 9:26:55 PM PST by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: Kartographer

Texas is starting to look like a nice place to move to. Hope they don’t put up roadblocks to stop those in California fom leaving-reverse of dust bowl days.


26 posted on 01/04/2013 9:37:51 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: Kartographer
Realization No. 6 -
Physical revolution.
I fear it is coming.
29 posted on 01/04/2013 9:44:29 PM PST by llevrok (ObamaLand - Where young people go to retire.)
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To: Kartographer

If it gets too bad, Texas will secede. Go to Texas.


31 posted on 01/04/2013 9:47:16 PM PST by UnwashedPeasant
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To: Kartographer

I started international travel in 1999, and by 2002, I was living half of my time in central Europe. I left the USSA for good in Jan. 05, back to Slovakia, where I had a great life.
In Jan 2009, I moved to the Philippines, where I have a happy life on a beach, with my new family, and for less then $1000 per month.
There is no way that I would consider going back to the USSA, much less take my family there.
With over 50 percent of Americans choosing a Marxist/Leninist POTUS, the media and educational systems in a full out assault on traditional American values, it tells me that the country that I loved is finished.
The fact that he got re-elected says it all.
Life there will get much worse, before or if it gets better.

By the way, central and south America are booming with new Americans fleeing the Obamination.
Check out InternationalLiving.com


32 posted on 01/04/2013 9:48:37 PM PST by AlexW
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To: Kartographer
Realization #1 - Corruption is far worse outside the USA

Along with the British Empire (or what little is left of it!) and most of Europe.

Sad.

33 posted on 01/04/2013 9:55:06 PM PST by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: Kartographer

I don’t know any other way to express this but I will try.

This is my country.

I was born and raised here.

Ancestors of mine fought in the Revolutionary War to ensure the liberties we all enjoy today.

Later, other ancestors of mine fought on both sides of the Civil War and the Union was preserved as a result.

My grandfather fought in WWII and his son fought in Vietnam to stop facism and communism.

I owe my freedom to God and to those generations before me who fought, bled and died to preserve it for me.

Therefore I cannot and will not with a clear conscience simply leave my child to suffer a bleak socialistic future when I have now at this time and place, the opportunity and means to prevent it.

I will not leave.

I will do what I must do in order to preserve the Republic that generations of our forefathers fought, bled and died for over the past 200+ years.

If that makes me a criminal in the eyes of the government, so be it.

I will fight if necessary.

Unlawful force used against me and mine will be met with deadly force.

If someone dies as a result of my use of necessary deadly force, it will be justified and my conscience will be clear.

I’ve lived a good life and have no complaints.

If I die preserving freedom and liberty in this country, then that is God’s will and I accept it.

I’d rather be remembered by my future grandchildren as a patriot who fought and died to preserve our country and its freedoms for us all, than have to explain to them why I failed to take any action at all.

I don’t know any other way to express this.


35 posted on 01/04/2013 10:01:07 PM PST by FortWorthPatriot (“If this be treason, make the most of it.” – Patrick Henry, 30 May 1765)
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To: Kartographer

I’m thankful that our forefathers got out of Europe because it was a lost cause. Of course this isn’t 200 years ago.


38 posted on 01/04/2013 10:05:48 PM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Kartographer
Learning what you need, getting it or learning how to create it and then learning how to use it is the best advice. Then comes being able and willing to defend what you have. Most places in rural America are preferable to urban areas anywhere.

If a real SHTF scenario happens, that money in your mattress won't help much ...in the bank even less.

39 posted on 01/04/2013 10:08:20 PM PST by Baynative (Those that work for a living are now outnumbered by those that vote for a living.)
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To: Kartographer

Despite going off on some pretty wierd tangents... the guy does make some very good points about survival tactics if the country faces some sort of economic collapse. His ranting about evil corporations distracts from the valuable points he makes regarding his experiences abroad and his observations about the societies he lived in and how they view Americans.


43 posted on 01/04/2013 10:17:08 PM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Kartographer

I plan to leave the USA and move to the Texas Republic—I hope they’ll have me.


46 posted on 01/04/2013 10:20:44 PM PST by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: Kartographer; 2ndDivisionVet

The Secret World of Machines ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa7o49uOzVI

Perfect Prepper Info (how to make just about anything) and fun to watch as well ... my kids used to love the show (I really miss those days)

TT

The whole series is available right there on Youtube ... they are outstanding


50 posted on 01/04/2013 10:30:47 PM PST by TexasTransplant (This needs to go viral http://vimeo.com/52009124 please watch it)
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To: Kartographer

It makes more sense to stay here and hunker down.

Convert as much of your savings and cash to hard assets as you possibly can.
Gold, guns, ammo, and other barterables are best, IMO. (I recommend gold coins over bullion.)
Keep only enough cash and banked money as you need for, say, 6 months (YMMV).

Also, think about food and water. Get near a river, large creek, or even a stream. Get near large state and federal parklands. Store fishing gear for both fresh and salt water. Plant vegetable gardens and grow some fruit trees. Keep a nice, big dog. (Don’t forget to stock up on dog food.) Stock up on long-lasting canned goods. Lots of them. They are maybe the best bang for the buck. Walmart sells those big cand of Campbells Chunky soups for $1.50 / can. Each can is practically a decent meal in itself, and there is a lot of variety. I recommend getting cases and cases of it.

Mostly, keep your gold well-hidden, well-protected, and nowhere near a bank or “safe deposit box”.
The Democrat parasites both in and out of government will continue to try to take what you have, and banks are no barrier to the government robbing you, count on that.

If possible bury a large tank for gasoline storage. Stock oil, too.
A couple of large propane tanks can come in handy, especially for gas grills.
Store a bunch (20 -35?) of filled, smaller propane tanks (the kind they make for grills) too - - good barter material. (Always think about good barterables.)
A cast-iron wood stove with cooktop is a great idea, too. (I have a 2200btu ‘Darby’ model that is awesome.)

Don’t forget a storeroom fro the little stuff like toilet paper, soap, plenty of towels, matches, batteries, extra clothes/shoe/boots, and so forth.

In the end, it’s all about timing. Collapse appears to be inevitable, but whether it bites us in the behind next week or ten years from now is the big question. I like to think of my preperations as “rolling preparations” - - that is, I use the oldest of what I have stored but then replace it with new stuff.

You don’t have to go crazy all at once - - just a little crazy every week. Sock stuff away every week and one day you will turn around and notice that you have accumulated quite a nice supply of goods. You will definitely feel better about your situation.

Good luck everybody.


54 posted on 01/04/2013 10:41:07 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Kartographer
I basically agree with your sentiments. I believe you can leave this formerly great, now disgraceful nation without physically leaving. A version of "going Galt" suffices. Get under the radar, get yourself well-stocked, well-armed, and prepared for collapse, and then hunker down and make yourself comfortable. No point in not having fun.

Also (and this is where many people take issue) find ways to GET BACK as much of the tax dollars you have dumped down the government toilet and the parasites' mouths as you possible can. SSDI is a popular scam these days, and there are plenty of scumbag lawyers to help you navigate the government bureaucracy. Maybe you are losing your eyesight and can't work? Maybe you "twisted your back"? Maybe you have painful arthritis? Heck, I think you can even get SSDI if you are an alcoholic or drug abuser... Whatever. This government and the Democrats running it depend on creating and supporting as many parasites as possible - - so pretend to be one.

If you have college students living away from home, get them on food stamps ASAP. I hear that's a breeze. Study the parasites and game "the system". GET BACK what you can before the Democrat parasites gobble it all up. DO NOT worry about shame or pride or any of that nonsense - - the enemy sure doesn't. This is war, and we didn't start it.

Good luck everybody.

62 posted on 01/04/2013 11:00:52 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Kartographer

Excellent article, with lots of common sense information.


68 posted on 01/04/2013 11:23:06 PM PST by meadsjn
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