Skip to comments.MI: Open Carry Lawsuit; Police Report or Dashcam Video?
Posted on 12/24/2013 3:15:01 PM PST by marktwain
|Open Carrier With Revolver|
Deffert was alone, and was loudly talking to himself, Moe wrote. Based on the area, and Defferts unusual behavior, R/O (responding officer) was concerned Deffert may have mental issues and was about to commit a violent crime.The responding officer then elaborates:
He secured Deffert in handcuffs. He then secured a .40- or .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol with attached flashlight.
Deffert immediately began stating that he was exercising his right open carry, Moe wrote. R/O explained to Deffert, he had that right (to) open carry as long as he was not a felon or had any documented mental orders.
R/O further explained to Deffert, R/O would release him as soon as R/O checked him in LEIN (Law Enforcement Information Network). Deffert stated he had neither. Based on Defferts answers and odd demeanor, R/O was not so sure Deffert did not have some psychological issues. Deffert would not elaborate on why he was talking to himself. He had no cell phone on him, Moe wrote, in a four-paragraph narrative.The problem is that people who claim to have seen the dashcam video from the officers patrol car say that the video does not support the R/O's report. From the comments on mlive.com Tom Lambert , who claims to have seen the dashcam video, writes:
Tim and I are on the leadership of a group called Michigan Open Carry and are local to the GR area. The plaintiff contacted us after his incident seeking help. We reviewed his case (the video) and sent him to a qualified attorney.In a later post Tim Beahan writes:
I have tried to be open and honest about who I am, and the facts of this case. If you still do not believe me, I understand, but I feel there is nothing more I can do.
Tom Lambert writes:Having reviewed the video, the comments offered by the responding officer are a complete fabrication. I'm looking forward to his impending career change.
"But, his attorney, Steven Dulan said Deffert repeatedly offered his identification to (police), who refused to retrieve it for several minutes, instead choosing to debate public policy with plaintiff."In a separate post:
This is backed up in the video. If the R/O just wanted to "check out" the plaintiff, why did he debate policy with the plaintiff instead of checking him out?
The dashcam video has not been released to the public. Deffert's lawyer is said to have the copy that Lambert and Beahan say they saw.
"Deffert would not elaborate on why he was talking to himself. He had no cell phone on him"
Both are not true as demonstrated on the video. Perhaps if the R/O had listened to the answers to his questions, this might not have turned out this way.
Here it is again (still as brilliant):
“Deffert may have mental issues and was about to commit a violent crime.”
Wow = Police can actually read people`s minds!
I thought fortune telling required a license.
These cops are watching too much tv “THE MENTALIST..>”
Larry, Moe and Curly wrote.
I think some anti-rights types have claimed that merely wishing to carry a gun is a sign of mental illness.
Some cops think that not being a cop is a sign of mental illness.
I spend a lot of time by myself since I retired..
I do talk to myself a lot since retirement.
Frankly, I fail to see what is wrong with that.
Now I will admit that if the comments are totally off the wall or if the person is in a public place ranting something incoherent....
But this fellow was driving his car. Most of us consider our car to be a private place. Even the law considers your car a private place, otherwise there would be no need for a warrant to search it.
Stub your toe, drop your keys, suddenly remember that you forgot your wife’s birthday...cuss yourself for being stupid..
All part of being a human.
The cop is an ass.
EVERY police report I’ve seen (in connection with myself, family or friends) has had LIES in the report - things which were total fabrications.
I believe ... now ... that no one can depend on the veracity or accuracy of police reports. And I say that from direct experience.
“Who are you going to believe?,” asked the officer, “Me, or your own lying eyes?”
Psychic cop ping
Going price in Virginia for an open carry false arrest is about $10k. Seems to have cured the problem for most LEOs.
In a case in my area the cops broke into an apartment in the middle of the night, and terrorized a family. They pointed guns at everyone including kids, and held them in cuffs for hours. They found nothing. They later claimed the warrant had listed their apartment (#2), when it should have been #3 and submitted a copy of the warrant showing #2 to the court. Meanwhile, the family’s attorney produced a copy given to him the day after that clearly states apt. #3. The occupants of #3 are long gone of course.
So, of course, hizzonor threw the book at the miscreants who falsified evidence, right? right???
I was there when my buddy made a statement to the police, watched him taking notes. Later on the "report" had things in it that were not said, and lacked important details that were said. As the DA was preparing a case I was contacted by buddy's atty, made a statement to her about what I had witnessed being said, not said. Couple of weeks later lo and behold, DA drops everything before going to trial. Things that make you go hmmm.
I hope so. The family’s lawsuit is still pending.
A warrant is not needed to search a vehicle...and its not private. One can be intoxicated in public in a vehicle...
“I think some anti-rights types have claimed that merely wishing to carry a gun is a sign of mental illness.”
Most cops think anyone who supports the Constitution of the
United States has a mental illness.
I was a LEO for 35yrs, never ever had the problems like we see today. It’s not just Mich. but the whole world seems to have gone crazy.
A warrant is required to search a vehicle unless there is probable cause.
That's all everyone does these days..with phones in their ears.
> Having reviewed the video, the comments offered by the responding officer are a complete fabrication.
When my son was a toddler, my mother asked if he talked to himself when he was alone. I grinned and responded. “I don’t know. I’ve never been with him when he was alone.”
Apparently, the gentleman with the firearm was exercising his sovereign right. According to a LEO I know well from East Lansing, Michigan the term “sovereign citizen” is gaining currency among the rogue element of law enforcement. While, as free men and women, we are sovereign citizens, the term has taken on a different meaning among this subset. Their view essentially is that we are never right, always guilty until we prove ourselves innocent. Therefore we are subject to the application of law as they define it, not as the state or US Constitution defines our rights. If we choose to challenge them on the basis of our defined rights, we’re sarcastically referred to as “sovereign citizens”. Apparently they particularly hate “minor issues” like 2A and 4A. 1984 redux.
A warrent, or probable cause, IS required to search your vehicle, and it is private property. Your example provides probable cause, but does not make your vehicle public property.
Just say no to ALL requests to search your car. When a policeman has stopped you, he is not there to be your friend, he is there to put you in jail if he can. It is foolish to answer leading questions or submit to a search voluntarily.
Probable cause is needed for a search of your vehicle...a warrant is not. It falls under the Carroll Doctrine. It is not public property, ut you are considered in public is in a vehicle...