AK and StG – Kissing Cousins

Forgotten Weapons ^ | December 12th, 2012 | Forgotten Weapons

[wizkid]

When people see the AK-47 and the StG-44 side by side and know nothing about their internal mechanisms, the nearly universal assumption is that one is a copy of the other. The overall layout of the two rifles is strikingly similar, and one would reasonably make the assumption that Kalashnikov got his hands on a captured StG and simply rebuilt it in 7.62×39. This is, of course, not true.

[wizkid]

What struck me more than this excellent article were some of the comments:

Commenter -Kevin R.C. O'Brien

NOTE: Commenter O'Brien is describing the wholesale importation of factories and technological know-how from the US during the 1930's. While I was somewhat aware of this, it never struck me just how massive this assistance was.

The Russians imported entire truck factories and reams of machine tools, and the expertise to set them up in production, between the wars. I once worked for a machine tool company that had shiped hundreds of machine heads and precision grinding machines to the USSR. One day oit of the blue we got a letter in Russian. Some guy in a factory was praising one of our #2 grinding machines, which had been displaced from its original factory to the Urals and then back to a new factory in, IIRC, the Murmansk area. He said that the machine was quite a celebrity in his plant and thanked us for making a good machine. The factory had since been sold but there were sons of several of the original workers who had built that machine, and I was able to find the original inventory card showing it consigned to Togliattistadt, IIRC, in 1934 or so.

Those archives (and all those guys’ jobs) were gone a few years later.

Commenter - So?

My grandfather mined gold in the Urals with a 1932 American dredger. US industrial aid to the USSR in the 1930s was absolutely massive. There are a few Russian blogs dedicated to the subject. Their inescapable conclusion is that it indeed was aid, and not simple trade. For whilst the USSR used every ounce of economic surplus to import industrial supplies, it got far more from the US than it paid for. (The stories about conniving commies tricking Depression-era “starving capitalists” like Henry Ford into building factories for them, and then not paying, are fairy tales.) IOW, the real Lend Lease happened in the 1930s.

The more I research this the more it becomes clear just how much US supported the Bolsheviks to the point of industrializing them during the late 20's and thoughout the 30's. It is a tradition that we have continued to the present day with the Red Chinese. Unfortunately, with the Chinese, it is even worse because our government appears to be hell bent on handing over the keys to the kingdom to them (open markets, technology transfers,ect.) while all the while hollowing out our industry.

[fso301]

The more I research this the more it becomes clear just how much US supported the Bolsheviks to the point of industrializing them during the late 20's and thoughout the 30's.

And the Bolsheviks paid for it in part by selling food on the world market in order to raise hard currency and thereby forcing its own people into cannibalism.

[wizkid]

A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic. - Quote Attributed to Stalin

UC Press E-Books Collection, 1982-2004 - When the Soviet Union Entered World Politics

primitive socialist accumulation

Unless capital was supplied by foreign loans, the only available policy alternative was the one espoused by the leading party economist, Evgenii Preobrazhenskii. He advocated immediate and rapid industrialization, with priority given to large-scale heavy industry, and with investment capital mobilized by transferring to state industry what could be accumulated internally within the private sector, especially in previous hit agriculture next hit. At the center of his strategy for industrialization was the expropriation of agrarian surpluses, which he termed "primitive socialist accumulation."[69] Preobrazhenskii's proposal represented a direct challenge to the smychka , the worker-peasant alliance on which NEP was based, and to Bukharin's gradualist, voluntarist, and harmonious concept of how "socialism in one country" would be constructed. Bukharin in turn ridiculed Preobrazhenskii's strategy as "super-industrialization," industrialization at any cost, and he included in his condemnation Trotsky, who shared Preobrazhenskii's preference for rapid industrial growth but did not identify himself with the notion of peasant expropriation.

[Antihero101607]

Kind of off subject, but mentioned early in the article, the AK was not mechanically based off the StG, however what I’ve read is that the concept is what ultimately led to the AK. A rifle combining a smaller, but high powered rifle round with the magazine capacity and volume of fire of an SMG.

[Talisker]

Collectivism is parasitism, because collectives don’t exist.

Collectives DO NOT EXIST.

People exist, and people make things and trade with each other.

The word “collective” is the magic word that is used to get everyone to go along with parasitic slavery. That’s all.

Humanity will either realize this, and destroy the mind-f****ng parasites and live, or it will not, and it will die.

There’s no third way.

[fso301]

Asthetically the two bear a strong resemblance but internally they differ significantly. No doubt the AK-47 is the result of Kalashnikov taking a good long look at the Stg 44 and other weapons before designing his own.

For a Soviet WWII weapon that was a shameless copy of an opponent's weapon, look at the PPSh-41.

[Carriage Hill]

Ping to the Gun Talk List...

Good article and comments at link:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/ak-and-stg-kissing-cousins/

[Lurker]

Well put, sir. Well put indeed.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

[Carriage Hill]

Great graphic; thanks.

[Chainmail]

thanks - very informative.

[wizkid]

In terms of the actual article, you are right on subject.

From best I can tell, the AK47 is an amalgamation of many ideas, including the Stg44, that the Soviets put together in stunning fashion. The whole idea of Kalishnikov dreaming up much of the design is a fair tale.

Apparently, the bolt action was borrowed from the M1 Garand:

Rotating Bolt - AK47

YouTube - How a Rotating Bolt Works

Rotating Bolt - M1 Garand

Amazing rare film: M1 Garand Rifle U.S. CAL.30

Tilting Bolt - STG44

How a Tilting Bolt Works

[caver]

Great post!

[mylife]

I always thought the STG was based on the delayed roller locking mechanism that the CETME and HK G3 are based on.

Learn something new everyday.

[Carriage Hill]

Ditto that. Did you read down thru the comments? Lots of good historical information and perspective there.

[Carriage Hill]

Also, an interesting story/videos (YT) on the 60s Armalite AR-180/AR-18, which was supposed to be successor to AR-15/M-16.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Armalite+AR-180%2FAR-18&sm=3

[smokingfrog]

If Armalite were to bring back the AR-180, with a few minor improvements, I bet they would sell a LOT of them. Due to the simple design, they would easily sell for $200 - $300 less than any other short stroke piston gun. I wonder if they could make one with an under-folder stock? That would be pretty cool.

[Frank_2001]

“There’s no third way.”

I agree; but try explaining that to a Democrat! ;)

[mylife]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETME

[mylife]

I love history.